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Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ?
    #14674952 -

Hi


I've been predominantly vegetarian (i.e., eating meat but rarely, maybe once a month) for almost three years.

In the past 4 years I seem to have developed: (i) severe back pain which I have been successfully doing physio to manage, (ii) severe knee pain which I have been less successfully been doing physio to manage, and (iii) what I'm hoping is temporary RSI in both wrists/hands.

Can a (probably) relatively low protein diet mean a susceptibility to muscular problems such as these? I do try to supplement my diet with beans, lentils, cheese, nuts and seeds but perhaps that's not enough?

If it helps in your analysis please bare in mind that I am m/24/5.6'/60kg.

Thanks

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14676814 -

Why not just get more protein? Research what foods are high in it, and eat them

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: Azure Essence]
    #14677894 -

What he said. I've been veg for the same amount of time, but just supplementing vegetarian sources of what a normal diet will lack without meat should be a priority.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: Delicious Apes]
    #14677923 -

eat a high protein cereal.. I have one I actually live on, that and a vitamin fortified cereal..

Obviously the protein cereal lacks the vitamins. But O also eat a lot of fruit..


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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14678005 -

b0blet said:
Can a (probably) relatively low protein diet mean a susceptibility to muscular problems such as these? I do try to supplement my diet with beans, lentils, cheese, nuts and seeds but perhaps that's not enough?
Thanks


Those are all excellent sources of protein, and I don't see that protein from meat would have any advantage over them.

I also wouldn't conclude that you have a low protein diet just because you don't eat meat.  There is a lot of confusion over what it means to be 'low' in protein, and an industry built around convincing people that protein is god when in fact too much of it can damage your liver/kidneys (source). 

Then again I'm not a doctor so I can't say that protein isn't your problem.  Why not try picking up a protein supplement and trying it for a month, see if you notice anything.  There are a lot of supplements- whey protein, soy protein, pea protein, etc.  They're all pretty nasty powders but if you mix it up into a smoothie it's not so bad.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: dzza]
    #14680814 -

> There is a lot of confusion over what it means to be 'low' in protein, and an industry built around convincing people that protein is god when in fact too much of it can damage your liver/kidneys (source).

Absolutely correct.  For financial reasons, society has been brainwashed into believing that high protein is important and the only source of high protein is meat/dairy.  Unfortunately, because there is so much money on the line, it is very difficult to find unbiased information, even within peer reviewed journals.  My advice is to learn to listen to your body... if you crave something, then eat it, and if you don't, then avoid it.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: Seuss]
    #14681059 -

Seuss said:
> There is a lot of confusion over what it means to be 'low' in protein, and an industry built around convincing people that protein is god when in fact too much of it can damage your liver/kidneys (source).

Absolutely correct.  For financial reasons, society has been brainwashed into believing that high protein is important and the only source of high protein is meat/dairy.  Unfortunately, because there is so much money on the line, it is very difficult to find unbiased information, even within peer reviewed journals.  My advice is to learn to listen to your body... if you crave something, then eat it, and if you don't, then avoid it.


Some of the best advice I've herd all day, definitely 100% correct and agree with everything being said here.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14681350 -

Are you taking any vitamin supplements?

How much protein have you been getting daily?

I don't believe the problem is from low protein.

I've been a vegetarian for 5-6 years and from my experimenting over the years. You may be deficient in zinc, magnesium, and b12. Especially if your someone who lifts weights/exercises multiple days of the week. I had knee pain and started taking zinc picolinate, and my knee pain is gone. Most multivitamins have a low content of zinc in them and is of a low quality, such as zinc oxide. It's not properly absorbed and combining it with vitamins like calcium can actually inhibit absorption.

Also research has shown that vegetarians, due to eating foods high in phytates. Actually inhibits absorption of zinc and most recommend that you need 50% more zinc than the average meat eater. Foods high in phytates are whole grains, and especially lentils/legumes.

Magnesium may help with your back, due to it being a muscle relaxer. Being deficient in magnesium, can cause muscle cramps, etc.

I really recommend you get a zinc supplement and see how you feel after a month or so. Zinc is also very cheap, so no need to worry about blowing a bunch of money.

Edited by LSDenthusiast (06/27/11 05:26 PM)

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #14683897 -

LSDenthusiast said:
Are you taking any vitamin supplements?

How much protein have you been getting daily?



Unsure how much protein I get daily, I don't really measure it.

Haven't been taking vitamin supplements. Don't really like the idea of taking pills every day. Maybe I should?

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14683944 -

If there are any decent charts you know of that I could use to measure my protein intake, please link me up.

Just looked up high zinc foods - I am eating sesame seeds and pumpkins seeds regularly, dark chocolate and hummous once or twice a week.

Thanks

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14684249 -

I disagree with the above poster about remedying everything with supplements.  If you eat healthy you shouldn't need to worry about the exact amounts of nutrients you are getting.  Personally, as a vegan, the only two things I would consider supplementing are vitamin B12, which is only found naturally occurring in meat (possibly in some veggies too, but in such a way that the bioavailability and subsequent absorption is much lower), and omega-3 from fish oils, which is supposedly better than omega-3 from flax and other nuts.  However I have done nothing to supplement those and have no problem with it. 

If you think you have a deficiency in some nutrient, you should do some research into it.  Using B12 again as an example, from what I know the effects of a deficiency range from subtle neurological and cognitive changes to more serious things like dementia and anemia, depending on severity.  Nothing about muscular problems.  Anyway, why not see if deficiencies in any of the suggested vitamins in this thread have effects that you are noticing. 

I'm not trying to bash supplements, because whether or not they have a scientifically measurable effect on health doesn't mean that they can't still improve your health.  The power of the placebo effect comes to mind.  I think unfortunately I'm too much of a skeptic for that though.  Here's a chart I found that may be useful for evaluating certain supplements, though it'd be useful to check out the source for the chart to see where they got their data specifically.


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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: dzza]
    #14684869 -

> Personally, as a vegan, the only two things I would consider supplementing are vitamin B12

I'm vegan as well, and I also avoid supplements.  Regarding B12, the body doesn't need very much of it and it is easy to get in B12 fortified foods (cereals, etc).  Personally, I use B12 fortified brewers yeast where the cobalamine (B12) comes from non-animal sources.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: Seuss]
    #14685513 -

Hemp seeds, eat them.


--------------------
"Sacrifice is the Christian way of life.  Theft is the Socialist way of achieving all ends.  Together they represent an awesome evil for this nation to confront."  Marc Emery.

People who receive medical cannabis trough the federal government.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: Seuss]
    #14685568 -

In my opinion if you stick to a natural organic diet; getting enough fruits, veggies, and protein (regardless of where it comes from) your body will not require any vitamins or minerals. The supplement market is there to make money, many people now a days are overfed and undernourished due to the amount of processed foods. Instead of bandaging the problem, cure the problem and don't waste your money on things that aren't needed. Auras has some really great points that should definitely be listened to.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14686038 -

As a vegetarian you should be getting about 30mg of zinc a day. Especially if you exercise, since heavy weights deplete the body of zinc.
Pumpkin seeds only have 2.11 mg of zinc per 142 seeds. Thats a shit load of seeds to eat.

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-pumpkin-squash-seeds-i12014?size_grams=28.3

click on the see more extended nutritional details for vitamin amounts.

I agree with everyone else on vitamin supplements. As long as you eat a wide variety of foods, you will get enough vitamins. Especially if your not an active person. However I do not agree that you can get an adequate supply of zinc through a vegetarian diet. Zinc is also only about 7$ a bottle for a 2-3 month supply.

Also, by your weight you posted. You seem very skinny. This may be due to not getting enough protein. Post what a few days worth of food is for you and I can estimate the protein easily.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #14686336 -

LSDenthusiast said:
As a vegetarian you should be getting about 30mg of zinc a day. Especially if you exercise, since heavy weights deplete the body of zinc.
Pumpkin seeds only have 2.11 mg of zinc per 142 seeds. Thats a shit load of seeds to eat.

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-pumpkin-squash-seeds-i12014?size_grams=28.3

click on the see more extended nutritional details for vitamin amounts.

I agree with everyone else on vitamin supplements. As long as you eat a wide variety of foods, you will get enough vitamins. Especially if your not an active person. However I do not agree that you can get an adequate supply of zinc through a vegetarian diet. Zinc is also only about 7$ a bottle for a 2-3 month supply.

Also, by your weight you posted. You seem very skinny. This may be due to not getting enough protein. Post what a few days worth of food is for you and I can estimate the protein easily.


I am pretty skinny, but I am also pretty short. I ate meat for most of my childhood and am roughly the same height as my parents but my father has a wider build.

I do have a bit of a beer belly at the moment and am gradually trying to work around the knee injury in order to do some cardio (cycling). I don't lift weights.

Typical day:

- Breakfast (8.30am): Non-sweet muesli with extra seeds/nuts, a piece of fruit, usually a banana or apple and a glass of orange juice
- Lunch part 1 (1pm): Wholewheat sandwich, typically peanut butter or hummous with salad. Possibly a packet of crisps (potato chips) or another piece of fruit.
- Lunch part 2 (3.30pm): A second identical sandwich
- Dinner (6.30pm): Full plate of mixed vegetable chilli with red kidney beans, rice and side salad (spinach, cucumber, tomato, red onion)

Obviously dinner changes frequently, the rest stays more or less the same.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14686811 -

From my tally of the food, it seems you eat around 45-65 grams of protein per day. Its fairly low, but if you don't exercise it's not much to worry about. Of course though these proteins do not have the proper amino acids to make them a "complete" protein.

probably

muesli 5-9g
seeds/nuts 7g
wheat bread 4g
peanut butter/hummus 8g
second sandwich 12g total
red kidney beans 10-15g
rice 4-6g

If your worried about getting enough protein, and your not a vegan. Why not eat some eggs, and milk/yogurt/cheese. I'm allergic to dairy from cows but I've been experimenting with goat products and so far no problems.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14686870 -

b0blet said:
I do have a bit of a beer belly at the moment and am gradually trying to work around the knee injury in order to do some cardio (cycling). I don't lift weights.


Have you ever tried yoga? I would recommened bikram. The founder of bikram started bikram yoga due to a knee injury he suffered, doctors told bikram he would never walk without a cane again, he ended up doing that and more.

My father actually had knee replacement surgery and made a full reconvert relatively quickly using bikeams yoga, he feels better then he ever has (or at least in years), for an older man with the recover went very very well.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #14687028 -

LSDenthusiast said:
From my tally of the food, it seems you eat around 45-65 grams of protein per day. Its fairly low, but if you don't exercise it's not much to worry about. Of course though these proteins do not have the proper amino acids to make them a "complete" protein.

probably

muesli 5-9g
seeds/nuts 7g
wheat bread 4g
peanut butter/hummus 8g
second sandwich 12g total
red kidney beans 10-15g
rice 4-6g

If your worried about getting enough protein, and your not a vegan. Why not eat some eggs, and milk/yogurt/cheese. I'm allergic to dairy from cows but I've been experimenting with goat products and so far no problems.


thanks

I was having two eggs daily with breakfast and cheese a fair bit for lunch but have been cutting down, fearing that they may have contributed to my belly.

Still eat eggs at weekends and cheese now and then, but not really in sandwiches anymore.

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Re: Can being vegetarian cause muscle pains (through protein deficit?) ? [Re: hdo3hc]
    #14687179 -

Just watch out for too many yolks in those eggs, the fat isn't so bad but the cholesterol they provide an get excessive pretty quickly. You can eat as many whites as your heart desires though.

Lah'Kesh


--------------------
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.

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