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Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion.
    #13813772 -

Hello.

I recently purchased an Asus Nvidia GTX 460 1GiB 250 bit graphics card.  ENGTX460:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121396

This card is powered by a SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W power supply that should be sufficient quality and power to adequately power my system and the card, which is the only video card installed.

This product is emitting a high-pitched noise that is very annoying.  It is easily the most prominent noise in the room when it is being emitted, and is hard to ignore.  Subjectively the sound seems over 15 kHz (presuming my speakers are accurately producing a sample tone I listened to) to my ear.

This noise seems to be emitted loudly only when the video card is being pushed hard with high GPU utilization, such as with the "folding at home" gpu client, however; the noise is present at idle, albeit much quieter and something I could deal with.  It does not seem to be relevant how warm the GPU is, and I can't identify any other relevant factor.

The noise seems to be what people have called "coil whine" which is caused by inductor elements vibrating.  Some also identify "capacitor whine" though I can't find any decent source for this, so who knows if this is a possibility.

Can anyone identify what the noise may be/is and how to choose a card without this?  The card I purchased was selected due to its reasonable cooling solution that didn't make much noise at idle and acceptable noise at load, however; this squeal make that feature worthless if it isn't an unusual phenomena (i.e. if not resolved by an RMA, which it seems like it won't be due to public sentiment on consumer message boards).

The only help I've found is marketing from MSI brand graphics cards that claim they use "solid state chokes" that will be inaudible and not produce distracting buzz noticeable to the consumer.  These are apparently found on their "military class" cards (just bullshit marketing nonsense I'm presuming).  Can anyone confirm if this is a reasonable solution to this problem and if "solid state chokes" should/may resolve this?  Are their any other brands, lines, et cetera that would be wise to look out for?  Example of possible MSI "solid state choke" boards: 

MSI N460GTX CYCLONE 1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127510

MSI N460GTX Hawk GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127518

Any comments on my problem would be appreciated, especially from people who have had this problem or those who know what it is and how to fix it.  Those familiar with the cards above or other "military class" MSI cards with solid-state chokes would be nice to hear from as well.

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13813881 -

I've had whine come from video cards before but the source seemed to be an issue related to the cooling fan. Before you look at weird possibilities such as capacitor whine, run the machine with the case open and use your thumb to slow down the fan to a halt and see what happens with the noise. I've also gotten this issue when the video card wasn't VERY securely mounted to the bracket. Again, run the machine with the case open and when you hear the sound, try pushing (gently but firmly) against the card - both towards the slot and towards the port opening in the back of the machine.

Either of these approaches might give you a heads up that it is fan/vibration related rather than some bizarre electronic issue.

Good luck!

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13813899 -

That seems similar to the transistor whine you sometimes hear in old tvs and stuff that is remedied by smacking the side of the tv.  You might try finding the offending coil and attaching something to it to dampen the oscillations and/or change the resonant frequency enough that it doesn't resonate so intensely.  Maybe glue a weight to the coil and then dump hot glue all around it. : )  I mean, if you're going to buy a new card anyway, you might as well experiment on this one and exhaust all options first...

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: SnarkyPuffs]
    #13813909 -

Yeah, I'd try what Snarky said first to make sure it's a coil and only do what I said once you are sure that it is a coil.  I doubt it's a capacitor...

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13813994 -

I assume you've tried re-seating the card, and double-checking that all the power connections are firmly seated?
The reference 460 can require up to 450watts @ 24amps at max load. You also have to think the CPU uses about 100 watts.. and the fans and HDs.. etc.
Seasonic is also not exactly renowned for their amazing PSUs. It could be pushing your PSU over the limit under a load.
Are you running a lot of case fans, HDs, etc? If so try unplugging any unnecessary case fans and drives and see if the problem persists. If it goes away, you know it's the PSU.
Do you have any way to test in a different machine or with a different PSU to see if you can recreate the issue?

Coil whine from the card can often be due to the card being underpowered by the PSU.
Also - make sure it is coming from the card. It could be coming from the PSU.
Does it only happen under 3D environments or is it just more prominent then?

Go into the BIOS and check your +12v rail, usually under "PC Health status, system monitor, power management" etc. It should be running somewhere between 11.4v and 12.6v and be stable. If you are seeing fluctuations, that is bad and usually a sign of a degraded or failing +12v rail. Additionally, try monitoring the 12v under a load such as when folding. Use a program like Hardware Monitor by CPUID or Everest to monitor the live 12v reading. Same rules apply. If it isn't the PSU, it's probably the card and would need to be RMAd. Any of the high-end GPUs can suffer from coil whine, in my experience it is due to the PSU a lot of the time. But is in no way common or specific to any single model or manufacturer.


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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: Shroomism]
    #13816228 -

520 watts is really pushing the limit of your power supply.

Are you sure its not the power supply?

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: JRayV]
    #13818137 -

Agreed.
If it's a brand new card and an older PSU (bronze certified at that), it's very likely its the PSU.


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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: Shroomism]
    #13818345 -

seriously? 

520 watts seemed like it would be overkill from what I figured.  That unit can put out 450+ W at 12V with load on the other voltages as well, so it seems like it would be plenty to me.  What does the fact that its bronze certified have to say either way?

From my musings, my system with an ATX AM3 motherboard, 95W CPU (at times lightly overclocked), 3 traditional hard drives, a handfull of low powered USB devices plus a 802.11g adapter/antenna powered via USB, plus the gtx460 would seem fine on 320 W.  Figured 520W was more than enough given the 160 W TDP of the card (though I'm not entirely sure the relevance of this, testing seems to indicate this is about the maximum power drawn anyways).


Testing of the power supply I have is available here for anyone interested:  http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=185


Anyways, have reseated, reinstalled drivers, reseated connections and power cords, et cet.

I've also verified that the sound seems to be coming from the graphics card to my satisfaction.  Unfortunately, I don't have any other way to stress the power supply that I can think of besides the relatively small CPU/overclocked/stressing which does not replicate the noise.

RE: the fan, thanks for the suggestions, but I don't believe any fan on the system is responsible for this. The sound does not correlate with anything but GPU percent usage, and neither system fans nor PSU fan, nor graphics card fan are consistant with the noise.  Even at idle-speed gpu fan speed, the sound is produced with sufficient gpu load.

Thanks so much for the suggestions and thoughts!


EDIT:  Chuang Tzu:

Thanks for the thoughts.  Yeah, it sounds the same as that transistor whine you describe as comming from older TV's.  Haven't tried violence yet, but I'm getting there! : /  Its just so high pitched, it is very hard to ignore even when the card is idle and the sound is very slight, it is still on your nerves.  The mechanical dampening suggestion seems good, but I'm going to try and see if I can figure out if this is "normal" or "acceptable" by the manufacturer first and then asses the options.  If this is normal operation, I really think the advertising was deficient as well as reviews.  A big reason to buy this card per the marketing was the cooling solution and cool, quieter operation compared to other current cards.  I'd rather have a loud fan than this squeal!  (I'm worried that mechanical dampening could insulate parts thermally and perhaps damage them by high temps... )

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13818451 -

Just trying to help. I work tech support for one of the major video card/mobo manufacturers (not Asus), our primary customers are gamers and extreme overclockers.
I help people troubleshoot issues like these on a daily basis.

Bronze certified means it's 87% efficiency at BEST. It also means not top quality components.
They are not always going to output the advertised wattage. In fact they rarely do.

I suggested unplugging the unnecessary fans (just for testing) because they run off the 12v rail, the same rail the video card runs off of. i.e - they are sharing power with the video card. Unplugging case fans would free up some wattage to see if the problem is insufficient power. It may not necessarily clear it up, but it could. If you unplug fans and the noise disappears or gets better, you know it's a power issue. That's just one way of testing. HDs, optical devices, CPU and other devices also share the 12v rail. Unplug the 2 unnecessary drives for testing as well. You can also try disabling any power saving options in the BIOS.

Dedicated folding can push a GPU to its limits, more than most games would.

Overclocking draws more power as well. Try setting it back to defaults for testing. 

Coil whine is NOT normal by any means. 99% chance it means either a defective card or a PSU problem.

For stress testing the GPU, use a benchmarking program like Heaven or Furmark

Use HW monitor to monitor the 12v rail while benchmarking. 11.4-12.6v and no fluctuations over .1v is normal range.
If you see the 12v outside of these ranges, or fluctuating widely, that most likely means a failing or overloaded 12v.
Of course the easiest way to determine if the problem is the card or not, is test it in another capable system.

edit: based on the specs from the link you posted, that PSU has a combined load of 480watts on the +12v. That is shared between ALL the devices that use the 12v rail. I'd almost put money that PSU is underpowering the card with all the other components in the system.


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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13818559 -

usually coil whines are due to a capacitor somewhere in your system that is vibrating at a frequency which is clashing with the rest of the components in the system (likely on the PSU, graphics card, or motherboard)....

i've seen some graphics card drivers that can contribute to such a sound, if the problem seems to get worse when loading a 3d application, try booting your system up into safe mode to see if you can still hear the sound... if the sound goes away, your problem may be software related.... enabling vsync in your graphics drivers options may help...

other things to try are disabling power saving features in bios, C1E and EIST are two examples...

can you try your graphics card/psu (individually) in another rig?


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: johnm214]
    #13818733 -

If you are certain that the whine is coming from you video card, then most likely one of the components (inductor or capacitor are most common) is to blame.  You can use a drinking straw as a stethoscope to isolate the component making the noise.  Once you figure out what is making the noise, coat it with a small glob of silicon glue and see if that fixes the issue.  If the card is still under warranty, I wouldn't bother with the above, and instead would exchange it.  (The best solution is to reflow the "faulty" component, but most of us do not have a reflow station.)

Depending upon the actual cause (there are many) of the whine, it may go away with age.  (Age in this context is with respect to time in use, not time while turned off.)


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Help confirming cause of high-pitched 'whine' coming from video card on exertion. [Re: Seuss]
    #13830327 -

I'm pretty sure that line has something similar to AMD Powerplay which automatically controls the power consumption to optimize the load on the card.  I haven't had an Nvidia card in a while though so I'm not sure what they call it or how it works.  My Radeon 6970's for example are made to do this and you can hear them kick it up when running Heaven or Vantage. 

Furmark is made to kick the shit out of any GPU.  Powerplay automatically limits the power my cards can draw for that benchmark, which is used to stress your cards for OC stability (not always).  It seriously stresses the cards so mfg.'s are now doing shit to limit that... kinda shady but I'm pretty sure there are ways to stop it.

If your card doesn't automatically inhibit the full potential of running Furmark it's a great way to see if your PSU is good enough, but like Shroomism said, without the Gold/Platinum + certification they don't come near their power output especially when hot. 

For the cost of that card though I'd just RMA it.  If you have the money just tell them it's defective and you want a refund so you can buy a new one and get it quicker. 

I'd maybe think of a new PSU as well.  If you get the Newegg emails then you probably see they have great deals on them all the time and modular PSU's are fucking great.  This is an idea of what these cards gobble up.



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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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