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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #13469079 -

Mr.Al said:
If Paul was President the wars would have been ended already.

DO you have anything intelligent to say about that?



Yes.  This.

:rofl2::rofl::whatever::cuckoo::flowstone::facepalm::lmafo::haha::stonedjerk::rolleyes:


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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13469131 -

zappaisgod said:
Mr.Al said:
If Paul was President the wars would have been ended already.

DO you have anything intelligent to say about that?



Yes.  This.

:rofl2::rofl::whatever::cuckoo::flowstone::facepalm::lmafo::haha::stonedjerk::rolleyes:




That's right you have nothing resembling intelligent to say.

Maybe if we weren't involved in irrational middle eastern conflicts our foreign policy might make sense.


Your bloodthirsty warmongering is a poor example of human morality :puke:.


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #13469161 -

Why do you hate women and the poor enslaved people of the middle east?

Ron Paul will be President following my second term.  We have spoken and he has agreed to that scenario.


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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13473903 -

How many women are wearing the burqas over in Iraq now? Are they more free now?

Reagan talked about how irrational middle eastern conflicts are, he was right about that much.


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Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #13474152 -

Mr.Al said:
How many women are wearing the burqas over in Iraq now? Are they more free now?


Straw lady Al, regarding the Burqas.  Burqas were never an issue in Iraq.  Rape prisons were.  And the systematic rounding up and killing of anybody who opposed Saddam.  That also includes all of Kuwait.  He was a psychotic despot bent on murder.  Now he is dead.  And you weep. 

As to the other conflict, Afghanistan, girls are now allowed to go to school.  At least in areas that have been secured.  I know you have a disgustingly paternalistic attitude toward women.  Does that also include keeping them at home and denying them an education?
Quote:
Reagan talked about how irrational middle eastern conflicts are, he was right about that much.


Did he?  Link?  I was displeased with him about how he reacted to Iran and Lebanon.  They are quite rational in that they know only the fist.  Reagan showed them weakness.  We are reaping that now.


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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13475514 -

To Al: Are you saying that U.S. has no interest in fighting muslim extremist who have very blatantly stated their goal is the demise of our nation? I think you refuse to see that we wouldn't be their if it didn't somehow serve our interests. Its like people who demonize the U.S. for Vietnam, but refuse to recognize that we had an interst in stopping the spread communism

To Zappa: Are you really trying to convince us that U.S. soldiers are dying so that woman don't have to we're buquas & can go to school? So that Iraqis can vote? Because if that were the reason I wouldn't support. Peoples freedom in foriegn lands is not our responsibility.

I agree, and have agreed with both of you on different topics, but I think your both off on this one. The truth lies somwhere in between


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

Edited by Simplicitry (11/12/10 10:34 PM)

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #13476115 -

Bankrupting the nation and destroying out standing as an international moral authority is exactly what many of those middle easterners want. 

The presence of U.S. forces in the middle east helps terrorists recruit more.

If the U.S. is not occupying foreign countries then the U.S. has the moral ground to prevent problems through diplomacy.


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #13476303 -

Mr.Al said:
Bankrupting the nation and destroying out standing as an international moral authority is exactly what many of those middle easterners want. 

The presence of U.S. forces in the middle east helps terrorists recruit more.

If the U.S. is not occupying foreign countries then the U.S. has the moral ground to prevent problems through diplomacy.


Explain to me how diplomacy would work with an organization like Al-Qaeda. It's not as though they have a seat at the U.N.

Also if you think that Diplomacy can solve all problems, or if you think that we should use diplomatic avenues with people who use suicide bombers, hijack airplanes and crash them into buildings, cut peoples heads off with small knifes, bomb train ways, and use other barbaric means then you and are just different people who are never going to agree on that particular topic.

I'm not saying that I agree with the way the wars have been fought. I'm very upset that U.S. blood, and money is being spent to nation build in Iraq and Afghanistan. If it were up to me I would have just bombed the hell out of the of Damascus, Baghdad, Tehran, Beirut, and Kabul. I wouldn't have put one soldier on the ground to shed his blood. I wouldn't have spent not one U.S. dollar on reconstruction. I would let them build back themselves, and not meddled in their affairs until they needed another reminder not to infringe on American interests. But unfortunately I don't get to make those types of decisions, so instead we have to spend Billions of dollars, and lose American lives in the name of "spreading democracy" to a bunch of people who don't have any respect for our way of life, and certianly have no desire to live as we do.


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

Edited by Simplicitry (11/13/10 01:08 AM)

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #13477543 -

Simplicitry said:
To Al: Are you saying that U.S. has no interest in fighting muslim extremist who have very blatantly stated their goal is the demise of our nation? I think you refuse to see that we wouldn't be their if it didn't somehow serve our interests. Its like people who demonize the U.S. for Vietnam, but refuse to recognize that we had an interst in stopping the spread communism


Let us also not forget the mass murder that occurred when we left.
Quote:
To Zappa: Are you really trying to convince us that U.S. soldiers are dying so that woman don't have to we're buquas & can go to school? So that Iraqis can vote? Because if that were the reason I wouldn't support. Peoples freedom in foriegn lands is not our responsibility.


As a matter of fact, yes.  A democracy is far less likely to be militaristically (see invasion of Kuwait) adventurous.  Further, an educated populace is far less likely to be gulled by religious lunatics, especially when that education is extended equally to the female gender.  I have repeatedly stressed that a people's freedom is not sufficient, on its own, to justify an invasion.  But it is certainly a factor that should be given great weight and a benefit that should not by any means be dismissed. 
Quote:


I agree, and have agreed with both of you on different topics, but I think your both off on this one. The truth lies somwhere in between



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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #13482335 -

If U.S. forces are bombing and occupying countries then you can be certain that terrorist organizations will find it easy to recruit new personnel.

When you step back and think about it for a minute you might conclude that certain elements in U.S. politics and intelligence do not want war to end. 


War is a business.


Several past Presidents have warned about the military industrial complex.


When a nation is in perpetual warfare opportunistic politicians terrorize the populace with the threat of unseen enemies so as to secure more centralized power.

This has happened before.  The Roman empire was big on using war to secure more power for the State.


We are repeating history because ignorant tools put their misguided faith in government.



Nations that are spawning grounds for terrorists will have a much older overall population in the years to come.  Older even than the U.S. demographics with the baby boomers retiring en mass.  If we stop stirring up shit in the middle east we can expect their graying populace to be less inclined to warfare...


--------------------
Ludwig von Mises Institute,Campaign for Liberty.,The Oath Keeper's

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Mr.Al]
    #13484601 -

I don't have any faith that the middle east will ever change. After thousands of years of religious fanaticism and violence I think its naive to to think things will ever change


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Simplicitry]
    #13485236 -

Quote:
I don't have any faith that the west will ever change. After a thousand years of religious fanaticism and violence I think its naive to to think things will ever change


Fixed.

Also your understanding of Arabic history is deeply flawed. Particularly the actual age of the religion you are trying to name as the problem in this case.
:rolleyes:


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13486211 -

> Particularly the actual age of the religion you are trying to name as the problem in this case.

He didn't name a single religion.  He said "religious fanaticism and violence".  Based upon geography, the ancient middle east was a crossroads for many cultures.  This led to the birth of many religions, including Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Yezidi, Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, Bahá'í, and more.  Given the number of cultures, the number of religions, and the strategic value of the area, it is no wonder that the middle east has a violent history.  Given the history of violence in the region, I agree with Simplicitry, "it is naive to to think things will ever change", at least in my lifetime.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13486656 -

ScavengerType said:
Quote:
I don't have any faith that the west will ever change. After a thousand years of religious fanaticism and violence I think its naive to to think things will ever change


Fixed.

Also your understanding of Arabic history is deeply flawed. Particularly the actual age of the religion you are trying to name as the problem in this case.
:rolleyes:


It is stunningly ignorant to describe the West as a current bastion of religious fanaticism.  The fact of the matter is that the West has precisely shed its religious fanaticism.  In a few hundred years maybe the monsters of the mid-east will follow suit.

Isn't Arabic a language?


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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Seuss]
    #13486945 -

Are you on crack? The west has way more violence under its belt than the mid east.

Suggesting he meant anything other than Islam when he said religion is to imply a great naivety of his posting history.
:rolleyes:

Also, as I have already pointed out if you compare it to the west (who's history is by far the most violent and includes the worst violence recent to the last century) or even other regions it has no more violence in it's history than most others (possible exception of Sub-Saharan Africa), be it over race, religion, identity or whatever.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13487033 -

ScavengerType said:
Are you on crack? The west has way more violence under its belt than the mid east.


False as a matter of history and certainly false as matter of present reality.


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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13487186 -

> Suggesting he meant anything other than Islam when he said religion is to imply a great naivety of his posting history.

Sorry, but I read what is written, not what you project was implied to fit comfortably into your world view.

> The west has way more violence under its belt than the mid east.

Perhaps... would depend upon how far back in time you are going, what cultures in the west you are considering, and what metric you are using to enumerate violence.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13488646 -

Whats soo wrong with fascism anyway? 

Our Capitalist two party system has brought us this far but the parties are now getting warped into there own ideology. They just now agree to disagree and with the changing of the guard (elections) they only stand to cancel each other out.

We are now in a WORLD economy and the world needs to be protected from capitalism.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: GabbaDj]
    #13489236 -

> Whats soo wrong with fascism anyway? 

The three tenants of fascism are nationalism, authoritarianism, and corporatism:

Nationalism tends to lead to conflict... since you aren't with us, you must be against us.
Authoritarianism stifles freedom and innovation, enslaving a population.
Corporatism puts the value of business ahead of the needs of the People.

> We are now in a WORLD economy and the world needs to be protected from capitalism.

Why?  What is so wrong with capitalism?


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: this is your govt on tea... [Re: Seuss]
    #13494943 -

Quote:
Nationalism tends to lead to conflict... since you aren't with us, you must be against us.

  Axis Of Evil.  Petro dollars.

Quote:
Authoritarianism stifles freedom and innovation, enslaving a population.

  Patent Law, Lawyers.

Quote:
Corporatism puts the value of business ahead of the needs of the People.

America

So what you are saying is that we are already fascist?  Then whats everyone complaining about....


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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