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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA
    #1292787 - 02/09/03 08:36 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This will serve to further class divide the USA.

Such things are very offensive to social-democrats. This is the opposite direction society should be going in.

Stuff is about to get worse for a lot of already hurting people. Guess what? Those who need help the least will get their incomes topped up, while the truly desperate and poor will suffer more. It's almost biblical... 'Do unto others'...we'll see who learns what in the next life...

Here is the article...



Unravelling the social safety net: Bush budget would overhaul Great Society
Posted on Sunday, February 09 @ 09:08:42 EST
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Susan Milligan, Boston Globe

WASHINGTON - With little fanfare, President Bush has proposed a dramatic overhaul in the Great Society programs created in the 1960s to provide a safety net for the poor and the aged. His 2004 budget outlines a series of sweeping changes in social programs - from Head Start to Medicaid - that have long been targets of conservative criticism.

Bush's spending plan, which he submitted last Monday to the Republican-controlled Congress, would give the states more power in administering Medicaid, the health program for the poor, and in controlling Head Start, the preschool program for disadvantaged children.

The president's proposals for Medicare would encourage elderly beneficiaries to join health maintenance organizations. Among the incentives would be a prescription drug benefit, offered in exchange for patients leaving the traditional system subsidized by the government, which involves payments of separate fees for each given medical service.

These changes - if approved by Congress - could amount to the biggest revisions in social programs since Lyndon B. Johnson.



"It does stand out as ... a more radical change than anything we've seen in more than 30 years," said Robert Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal research group.

"When you look at the budget," said Greenstein, the center's president, "you actually see it starts a process of gradually disassembling central features of core safety net programs, in particular those programs targeted at people with low incomes."

Medicaid, a $300 billion program, is now administered and partly funded by states, with federal matching funds. Under Bush's proposal, states would be given an early financial incentive to accept block grants for Medicaid, locking in a limited federal contribution.

In addition, lawmakers in both parties have proposed covering outpatient drugs under Medicare, an addition that alone would represent the biggest expansion ever of the $240 billion program.

The Bush proposal would offer the elderly drug benefits through Medicare only if they joined health maintenance organizations. Older people in some states have the option of enrolling in HMOs, but they have not been given benefit-related incentives.

The president's plan also would give state governments more control over Head Start, a $6.5 billion program that is federally funded but locally administered, and would shift federal oversight from the Department of Health and Human Services to the Education Department. States could combine Head Start funds with federal education funds.

Scott McClellan, a White House spokesman, said the changes had been designed to improve how the programs are run, a task that he said is better done by the states.

"The approach is to make these programs work better and to meet their goals, to make sure that we're achieving results in these programs," McClellan said.

Critics say that shifting authority to the states could lead the federal government out of the business of providing a social safety net for the needy and the sick.

Additionally, the critics say, program quality could vary widely across the 50 states.

The changes were suggested with little of the ideological head-butting that followed previous Republican efforts to revise social programs. Two days after Republicans won control of the House in 1994, for instance, Newt Gingrich of Georgia, then House Republican whip, gave a speech in Washington declaring that the "welfare state" programs had to be "thoroughly replaced." (The future House speaker later revised his remarks to say the programs should be reexamined.)

Opposition from President Clinton and interest groups blocked major changes.

Bush released his budget proposals last week without the bluster of the Gingrich era. Working with the Republican-controlled House and Senate, the president is well-positioned to push his agenda through Congress. And even longtime champions of programs like Medicaid and Head Start have acknowledged a need for some improvements. The administration's fixes follow conservative principles of limiting the federal role in social programs, giving more power to states, providing beneficiaries with more choice, and relying to a greater extent on market forces.

Conservatives outside the administration say the programs must be revamped to accommodate changes in the nation's economy and its demographics.

Liberals, meanwhile, say they are alarmed both by the proposed restructuring and by the pressure on the the federal budget. These they said, would spell disaster for programs for the needy.

"This is a very serious assault. Between privatization and the spending of the surplus, these programs could be in real tough shape," said Barbara Kennelly, a former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut.

Senator Edward M. Kennedy, meanwhile, said Bush's proposals would begin to unravel Johnson's antipoverty programs.

"I suppose the president's actions could be termed the end of the Great Society, and the beginning of the `You're on Your Own' society,' or the `Law of the Jungle society,"' the Massachusetts Democrat said.

"The administration," he added, "is using the budget to change the programs from basic entitlements to block grants, and is trying to privatize the delivery."

Analysts across the spectrum agreed that changes are needed to improve service and avoid waste. They differed on specifics.

"These are programs that really are in need of modernization, but not in the ways proposed by President Bush," said Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, research arm of the moderate Democratic Leadership Council.

"We've always been opposed to block grants," Marshall said. "Simply dumping a bunch of money on states and saying `you figure it out' isn't good enough."'

The Head Start program suffers from a dearth of well-educated teachers, and youngsters in the program are behind in literacy and other areas. Medicaid is poorly administered in some states. Medicare costs are spiraling, and the program does not cover outpatients, whose use has grown considerably since the 1960s.

Bush's proposal for Medicaid block grants makes sense, said Daniel Mitchell, an economist with the conservative Heritage Foundation, because the grants would give government an incentive to budget frugally. Since neither the states nor the federal government pays for the whole program, each has an incentive to spend more, knowing another government will pick up part of the cost, Mitchell said.

Opponents say state governments will be tempted to take the deal, and then may be forced to reduce services and tighten eligibility later should the federal money prove insufficient to pay for health care for poor people.

"What the Bush administration is proposing is the policy equivalent of loan sharking. They dangle a relatively small amount of money to states that are in desperate fiscal condition, but the price they have to pay is exorbitant," said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a health-care advocacy group.

Head Start proponents agree that the program needs work. For example, only 20 percent of Head Start teachers have bachelor degrees, and even advocates of the programs say it sometimes serves more as a child-care service than as a program to boost development. But advocates say the budget would set Head Start on a road to becoming a state-run program with few federal standards. They also say states may neglect Head Start in favor of other education programs.

"We're eager to work on any reform that will work on the quality," said Amy Wilkins, executive director of the Trust for Early Education. "What we've got to be concerned about here is: Will the proposal serve children better?"

Critics of the Medicare proposal say seniors would be forced to join HMOs to get the drug benefit they have long sought.

"The whole idea is giving people choice. That's not ending it," said Grace-Marie Turner of the Galen Institute. Medicare is a "social contract" with seniors that the government will fulfill, she said.

Others say the proposal is a step toward taking the government out of guaranteeing health care for the elderly.

When seniors have joined HMOs, providers have gradually pulled out because the reimbursement rate is too low, and elderly people might be left temporarily without coverage, said Elaine Kamarck, a health care adviser in the Clinton administration.

"This is a bait-and-switch operation," said Kamarck, now a lecturer at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government. "I'm a big supporter of shrinking government and using market forces, but in some cases, it doesn't work."

Greenstein sees the debate as part of a continuum in American politics, a moment potentially as significant as the New Deal in the 1930s or the passage of the Great Society programs themselves.

"Every several decades, we make fundamental changes in policy that set a mold within which government and a good part of American society operates for decades," Greenstein said.

? Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.

Reprinted from The Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/040/nation/
Bush_budget_would_overhaul_Great_Society+.shtml














--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1292948 - 02/09/03 09:35 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This is the opposite direction society should be going in.



No, right direction. Just not far enough, fast enough.

The B.O.R. does not allow for any of these types of programs to be run or financed by the federal government.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1293303 - 02/09/03 11:56 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


No, right direction. Just not far enough, fast enough.





Man, you should have been happy in nazi Germany or fascist Italy.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,723
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Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1293362 - 02/09/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

That's just a stupid statement.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1293847 - 02/09/03 04:28 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)




Man, you should have been happy in nazi Germany or fascist Italy.



So by your twisted lack of logic, a person who is against socialism, would be for National Socialism?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Evolving]
    #1293958 - 02/09/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

By my reasoning, a person who is against socialism is someone from the RIGHT.
And, I believe Nazi Germany was at right.
You might say, nazi germany was an extreme.
Look again at what luvdemshrooms said:
"No, right direction. Just not far enough, fast enough."
I believe that sounds EXTREME enough.




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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1294021 - 02/09/03 05:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Shut up! Just shut up, you mindless idiot! I myself am a Socialist, but by no means do I consider all conservatives to be Fascists(tho the ones in the White House right now certainly seem to lean in that direction). It's just as ridiculous as them saying that every Democrat is a Communist. George Orwell, a Socialist, was fiercely anti-Communist. By the same token, many(most, I should say) conservatives are appalled by Fascism. Also, there's economic liberalism/conservatism and social libertarianism/authoritarianism. The main difference between a Fascist and a Communist is economic, as is the difference between a Socialist and a Libertarian.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,780
Loc: Swamp
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1294218 - 02/09/03 06:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

By my reasoning, a person who is against socialism is someone from the RIGHT.
And, I believe Nazi Germany was at right.
You might say, nazi germany was an extreme.
Look again at what luvdemshrooms said:
"No, right direction. Just not far enough, fast enough."
I believe that sounds EXTREME enough.





So we're gonna get into another Right vs Left bullshit huh?


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: silversoul7]
    #1294364 - 02/09/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

George Orwell, a Socialist, was fiercely anti-Communist.

No, he was fiercely anti-soviet. He was passionately anarchist and indeed went to fight for the anarchists and extreme left in Spain. The soviets fought against the anarchists.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Evolving]
    #1294374 - 02/09/03 07:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

So by your twisted lack of logic, a person who is against socialism, would be for National Socialism?

Try not to take things too literally. Hitler used the word "socialism" because he knew it would appeal to the workers. It doesn't mean he actually was a socialist. He spent his first years in power jailing all socialists and communists.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1294383 - 02/09/03 07:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

NAZI = NSDAP = National Socialist German Worker's Party


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Xlea321]
    #1294418 - 02/09/03 07:46 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here's a few morsels from the NAZI's platform, that from your previous posts, I'm sure you'd agree with...

- Individual activity must not be harmful to the public interest and must be pursued within the framework of the community and for the general good.

- We therefore demand: The abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.

- We demand the nationalization of all enterprises (already) converted into corporations (trusts).

- We demand profit-sharing in large enterprises.

- We demand the large-scale development of old-age pension schemes.

- We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle class; the immediate communalization of the large department stores, which are to be leased at low rates to small tradesmen. We demand the most careful consideration for the owners of small businesses in orders placed by national, state, or community authorities.

- We demand land reform in accordance with our national needs and a law for expropriation without compensation of land for public purposes. Abolition of ground rent and prevention of all speculation in land

- We demand ruthless battle against those who harm the common good by their activities.

- In order to make higher education ? and thereby entry into leading positions ? available to every able and industrious German, the State must provide a thorough restructuring of our entire public educational system. The courses of study at all educational institutions are to be adjusted to meet the requirements of practical life. Understanding of the concept of the State must be achieved through the schools (teaching of civics) at the earliest age at which it can be grasped. We demand the education at the public expense of specially gifted children of poor parents, without regard to the latters? position or occupation.

- The State must raise the level of national health by means of mother-and-child care, the banning of juvenile labor, achievements of physical fitness through legislation for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and maximum support for all organizations providing physical training for young people.

- We demand freedom for all religious denominations, provided that they do not endanger the existence of the State


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Evolving]
    #1294435 - 02/09/03 07:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

NAZI = NSDAP = National Socialist German Worker's Party

Once again, try not to take things too literally. How much support would Hitler have had if he'd called his party "The big-business funded kill socialists and jews party".



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,780
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Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1294444 - 02/09/03 07:54 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I'm feeling it


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Evolving]
    #1294448 - 02/09/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Here's a few morsels from the NAZI's platform, that from your previous posts

And you believe Hitler and Goebbels?

There really is nothing more to say.

btw, here's something else Hitler said:

English diplomat Colonel Richard Meinertzhagen gave an account of his first meeting with the future Nazi dictator in Berlin on October 17, 1934,

"Eternal peace was his aim and whilst he was Chancellor he would never think of war except as a protective measure if Germany were invaded. He said that his whole policy was based on peace. Hitler was most emphatic that there never had and never would be any aggressive military conception within or behind the Nazi movement. Hitler particularly desires peace with France and has made great efforts to this end without success. France always stands in his way when he wants peace


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Xlea321]
    #1294591 - 02/09/03 09:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Face it Alex, you and Facists are kindred spirits, why Hitler even supported gun control. You cannot deny the historical record of the Nazi's goals, they dovetail quite nicely (though not exactly) with your own. Besides being a socialist, you also have expressed anti-Jewish sentiment (though couching it in sympathy for terrorist grievences). Though people like you dwell on the nationalism, military and warfaring aspects of Facism, you cannot deny sharing some common goals with Nazi's, the facts speak for themselves.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (02/09/03 09:07 PM)


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InvisibleMushMushi
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 480
Loc: Canada
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: silversoul7]
    #1295117 - 02/10/03 04:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You misinterpreted my post.

Someone who is against socialism, is necessary someone who is from the right.
By socialism, I mean anarchism (it's cousin), and communism (not stalinism).

Now, why did I say that luvdemshrooms should be happy in Nazi Germany?

Look at this comment again:
"No, right direction. Just not far enough, fast enough."

Right direction (to the right)
not far enough: I believe Nazi Germany was far enough in the RIGHT
I thought that guy, who is obviously from the RIGHT, might have been happy in the extreme RIGHT regime.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Evolving]
    #1295205 - 02/10/03 05:26 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Face it Alex, you and Facists are kindred spirits

Hitler was a communist? Where do you dream up this shit?

I suppose in your world up is down too... :smirk:


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: MushMushi]
    #1295211 - 02/10/03 05:27 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I believe Nazi Germany was far enough in the RIGHT

According to evolving Nazi's are left-wingers....


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Privatisation and Tax Cuts at work...USA [Re: Xlea321]
    #1295535 - 02/10/03 07:12 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

It's like a circle rather than a line. The extreme right-wingers and extreme left-wingers are actually pretty close politically. The more extreme you are, the closer you are to the other extreme.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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