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Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing?
    #12309225 -

It was a good thing, right?  I think most or all of the banks paid back the TARP money with interest.  The American people came out on top in this situation, right?











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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Learyfan]
    #12309244 -

no... the bailouts were a means for congressmen to keep their portfolios healthy


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12309330 -

Agreed.  The banks came out fat and happy on our interest-free money, and then raised nearly everyone's credit card interest rate to 29% or more.  It was a serious hosing for the taxpayers.  The government borrowed the money at interest, in order to give it to the bankers interest free. Those of us who work and pay taxes got stuck up the 'you know where'.
RR

http://www.newsweek.com/id/227295
Quote:
What's more, government agencies and the Federal Reserve rushed to the assistance of the banking sector by guaranteeing banks' debt, intervening in capital markets, and slashing interest rates to zero. In essence, the government altered the banking environment so that it would be astonishingly easy for the banks to profit, and thus earn their way out of trouble. As a result, critics said, the banks were being spared many difficult and painful decisions.



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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12309472 -

I hear you.  But I'm talking about just the lending of the money part, I guess.  But I'm pretty sure that all of the banks paid interest, which came back to the tax payer.  Hopefully that interest was more than what it cost us to borrow. 











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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Learyfan]
    #12310195 -

> Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing?

Bad thing.  I am now part owner of a bunch of defunct car companies.  Fail, for the win.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Seuss]
    #12310285 -

The loans to the banks?  Profitable. 
The car companies?  Down a rathole.

Rising credit card rates?  Tough shit.


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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12310290 -

the bailouts were a direct affront to capitalism.

as such, i must say bad.


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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Yrat]
    #12310318 -

I agree but so was the CRA, Fannie & Freddie and a whole shitoad of other crap crammed down the bankers' necks before hand.

On the other hand, as an investment, they were quite the essence of capitalism.  Buy low sell high and make money.

The car company shit was an unadulterated affront, however.  A bad investment.


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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12310328 -

Bailout of GM/Crysler = complete shit.

Bailout of Banking Industry = completely necessary.  Bitch and moan about getting hosed all you want.  You'd be bitching a lot more if unemployment was double what it is now and credit (both personal and corporate) is nonexistant.  Bottom line is the entire financial system was hemmoraging, and without the bailout, we'd be FUCKED in the short-run.

And to those who offer the rebuttal: "But our efforts come at the expense of long-term viability"

I repsond by quoting Keynes:  "In the long run, we're all dead"
(no, I'm not a strict keynesian, but this quote is applicable to this situation, hence the TIME magazine title two years ago "We're all Keynesians now")

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Learyfan]
    #12310671 -

As soon as they loosened the accounting rules, 1 year ago, the banks just swept their toxic assets under the rug. Nothing has changed or was fixed. They can stay afloat for a little while longer, but soon the cash flow will dry up.



meams said:
Bailout of Banking Industry = completely necessary.  Bitch and moan about getting hosed all you want.  You'd be bitching a lot more if unemployment was double what it is now and credit (both personal and corporate) is nonexistant.  Bottom line is the entire financial system was hemmoraging, and without the bailout, we'd be FUCKED in the short-run.



Bailing out some water from a sinking boat doesn't fix the leak.

The US Government can't afford to bailout the banking system every time there is a financial crisis. What are they going to do next time when they can't scrounge up another couple hundred billion dollars? How about: any company that is "too big to fail" should be broken up. That way we can have a sustainable system where bankruptcy is the consequence of failure.


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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: memes]
    #12310859 -

meams said:
Bailout of GM/Crysler = complete shit.

Bailout of Banking Industry = completely necessary.  Bitch and moan about getting hosed all you want.  You'd be bitching a lot more if unemployment was double what it is now and credit (both personal and corporate) is nonexistant.  Bottom line is the entire financial system was hemmoraging, and without the bailout, we'd be FUCKED in the short-run.

And to those who offer the rebuttal: "But our efforts come at the expense of long-term viability"

I repsond by quoting Keynes:  "In the long run, we're all dead"
(no, I'm not a strict keynesian, but this quote is applicable to this situation, hence the TIME magazine title two years ago "We're all Keynesians now")


It's a popular thing on these boards to bitch and moan about the level of debt we are shoving off on our future generations. It's okay to give them an inherently unstable financial system for them to use to pay the debt off with in your view?

Because you'll be dead?


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #12310868 -

Saying that corporations that are too big to fail should be broken up will get you called (incorrectly) a fascist on this forum, regardless of whether or not your have a good point.

You have a great point. :highfive:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: memes] * 3
    #12311315 -

zappaisgod said:
I agree but so was the CRA, Fannie & Freddie and a whole shitoad of other crap crammed down the bankers' necks before hand.

On the other hand, as an investment, they were quite the essence of capitalism.  Buy low sell high and make money.

The car company shit was an unadulterated affront, however.  A bad investment.


while i somewhat agree in terms of essence of capitalism, i don't believe that the constitution gives the federal government the power to invest in any market or industry within the economy.  this action is even more troubling considering a good 90% of the population was against it.  so much for a representative republic.


meams said:
Bailout of GM/Crysler = complete shit.

Bailout of Banking Industry = completely necessary.  Bitch and moan about getting hosed all you want.  You'd be bitching a lot more if unemployment was double what it is now and credit (both personal and corporate) is nonexistant.  Bottom line is the entire financial system was hemmoraging, and without the bailout, we'd be FUCKED in the short-run.

And to those who offer the rebuttal: "But our efforts come at the expense of long-term viability"

I repsond by quoting Keynes:  "In the long run, we're all dead"
(no, I'm not a strict keynesian, but this quote is applicable to this situation, hence the TIME magazine title two years ago "We're all Keynesians now")


we might have been fucked in the short run, but the result would be much better health in the long run.  all that happened was that the crisis was postponed until a later date, at which time it will be much worse.  and then it will be pushed ahead, again, and again, kicking the can further down the road. 

the institutions that were insolvent needed to fail.  yes, this would have caused catastrophic system-wide destruction in the short term, but that is exactly what needs to happen in order to clean up all the fraudulent Enrons of wall street.  when they (are supposed to) fail, successful businesses with legitimate, functioning business models can buy up the assets of the failures.  the frauds get washed away and all that is left are the honest ones, who rebuild the foundation of the industry and system on something other than sand.

pure capitalism is akin to evolution.  if a species, or business, can not adapt to it environment, it should go extinct, leaving behind only those organisms which are able to function and adapt most successfully.  right now we have a bunch of zombie dinosaurs stumbling around that should have died out with the crash.  sometimes you can have mass extinctions, but what remains from such events grows into the next system that is adapted and successful.

i think quoting keynes, and essentially saying, "fuck it, keep the bullshit alive until i'm dead and gone, let someone else deal with it" is not only incredibly shortsighted, but amazingly selfish.  do you wish to have children one day?


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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: Yrat]
    #12311420 -

+1


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: memes]
    #12312720 -

meams said:
Bailout of GM/Crysler = complete shit.



dont believe that ford wasnt in on that too, they just used a different
strategy with a line of credit so they didnt have to go back after 6mos
and beg for more


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Do you think the bailout was a good thing or a bad thing? [Re: dill705]
    #12314749 -

Quote:
It's a popular thing on these boards to bitch and moan about the level of debt we are shoving off on our future generations. It's okay to give them an inherently unstable financial system for them to use to pay the debt off with in your view?

Because you'll be dead?



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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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