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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional?
    #12236865 -

I say they are.  I'm not saying I like e speech; in fact, I find it generally repulsive.  But the First Amendment wasn't written to protect speech most people agree with.  When you think about it, why would that kind of speech need legal protection in the first place?  What's more, hate speech laws are increasingly being broadened to stifle and antagonize divergent political opinion, the very thing the first amendment was designed to protect.  Am I off base here?

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: mofo]
    #12236979 -

I am not aware of any hate speech laws in the United States.


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12236996 -

disturbing the peace, several people have been busted for using the word
nigger in public as a form of 'hate speech' since there's no law directly
against speech they charge you under anything that may apply


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12237756 -

So I take it he was way off base, :lol:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: dill705]
    #12238283 -

no, he's absolutely right, it's the 'unpopular' speech that is in
need of protection under the 1st amendment, my statement simply
shows a wanton disregard for the bill of rights by law enforcement
officials in order to 'keep the peace'


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12239538 -

Somehow I thought there were hate speech laws in the US.  I guess maybe I was thinking of anti-hate speech policies on college campuses.  Stories like this one  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/02/uc-san-diego-debates-campus-media-suspension.html

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: mofo]
    #12239550 -

if they're receiving public funds it's easy to litigate on rights
violations, if they're entirely privately funded, there's nothing that
can be one


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: mofo]
    #12243944 -

Does the 1st Amendment allow me to call up your house and tell you that I'm going to murder your children?

Sticks and stones and whatnot.


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BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: jimbotron]
    #12244005 -

No, it doesn't.  But it does allow you to call me an asshole or a honkie in the street.  And it allows me to call you a dumb fuck in the street.

Threats are not protected speech.  Never have been, never will be.


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12244057 -

one of the great things about the georgia constitution is that free speech is protected but it also states that you're responsible for it

a lot of acquittals on assault charges over "fighting words"


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12244080 -

Actually not something I'm real in favor of.  Keep your hands to yourself.  Period.  Anything else leaves far too much to interpretation.


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12244137 -

Well, see, part of the 'hate speech' idea is that certain kinds of speech are historically associated with violence and terror.

For example, if a black person walks into a bar in South Carolina and the proprietor says "you better get outta this town, nigger", I don't think anyone would describe it as friendly travel advice. I'm pretty sure the frequency of the word 'nigger' being used at lynchings is 100%; anyone seriously disagree?

The only issue here is whether every use of the word 'nigger' is meant as a veiled threat. Personally, I can't think of a situation in which you could (non-ironically) call someone a nigger to their face without the intent to provoke or intimidate them.

Can you?


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BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: jimbotron]
    #12244156 -

It's all about intention, and it's up to the police officer responding, or at least a smart prosecutor, to see a bogus claim. Inflamatory speach has never been protected either.


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: jimbotron]
    #12244210 -

jimbotron said:
Well, see, part of the 'hate speech' idea is that certain kinds of speech are historically associated with violence and terror.

For example, if a black person walks into a bar in South Carolina and the proprietor says "you better get outta this town, nigger", I don't think anyone would describe it as friendly travel advice. I'm pretty sure the frequency of the word 'nigger' being used at lynchings is 100%; anyone seriously disagree?


The crime is not saying "nigger".  It's the lynching.  They probably say "rope" a lot at lynchings, too.  Would it be more acceptable if they called the victim "African-American"?
Quote:
The only issue here is whether every use of the word 'nigger' is meant as a veiled threat. Personally, I can't think of a situation in which you could (non-ironically) call someone a nigger to their face without the intent to provoke or intimidate them.

Can you?


So what?  Provoke isn't the same as threaten, is it.  "I'm going to tear your fucking stupid head off" is substantially different from "Holy shit you are one dumb motherfucking asshole".

By the way, Negroes call other Negroes "nigger" with great regularity.  When does the color of one's skin become relevant to a determination of the criminality of an act?


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: dill705]
    #12244242 -

dill705 said:
It's all about intention, and it's up to the police officer responding, or at least a smart prosecutor, to see a bogus claim. Inflamatory speach has never been protected either.


Oh so you're a thought cop, now?  "Honest officer, I called her a heinous dumb cunt out of affection."  All of a sudden we have extreme leftists supporting the rights of cops to arrest people for their speech.  What a surprise.

By the way, it isn't up to either the cop or the prosecutor to decide.  Judge and/or jury.  Learn your Constitution.


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12244396 -

Yep, I'm a thought cop, you got me :rolleyes:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: dill705]
    #12244432 -

I didn't catch you.  You did.  What do you think "intention" means?


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12244506 -

Intention is easily inferred. Some things can be said without consequence, say in a newspaper, the same things said in front of an angry mob can carry consequences, but only if it leads to crime.

What's wrong with that principle?

And besides, intention is something that defense attorneys and prosecutors use often in court.


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: dill705]
    #12244599 -

But the intent is not itself the crime.  It is only useful in establishing motive for other elements which are criminal.  For instance, I may intend to rob a bank but when I walk past it is full and I do nothing.  Have I committed a crime?  No.  I haven't even legally conspired to commit a crime.  I may have gone to your house intending to assault you but changed my mind.  Did I at any point commit a crime?  No.  However, if I endeavored to hire someone to do the same then I will have committed a crime.  The act of soliciting another is the crime, not the intent.


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Re: Aren't laws against hate speech unconstitutional? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12244700 -

Right, and calling someone a nigger with a racist intent disturbs the peace. Saying it like he's your homeboy, in the correct context, is not a crime. The difference? Intent. What's not to understand?


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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