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Why is science a liberal enterprise?
    #11923139 -

We've got people insisting that trans fats are a guilty pleasure, even though they have no characteristic appearance, texture, taste, or cooking properties.t There is literally no way in hell they could distinguish a 45% trans fat from a 100% cis fat without expensize scientific equipment... and even if they did have the equipment, they couldn't do it :rofl: They don't understand what human lipase does, they don't understand why it only metabolizes cis fats, and they don't give a shit.

Our last President denied the theory of evolution, which has been the universal scientific consensus for over a century -- and half of the American public, mostly the ones with no scientific education whatsoever, agree with him. My own governor, a rising star in the GOP, is trying to force the public schools to teach creationism alongside actual science. Three of the Republican primary candidates in 2008 denied the theory of evolution as well, not to mention Sarah Palin.

One of the few things Obama has done that I actually appreciated was one of the earliest: ending the ban on federal funding for stem cell research, thereby freeing our scientists to compete with the rest of the world. Just like free trade, right? You'd think, but the ban -- deliberately engineered to restrict research to a couple of fucked-up, useless cell lines -- was one of Bush's most celebrated acts in office. Yes, that's right: kneecapping biological research was a good thing to some people. Jesus, those eight years were like a bad dream.

And as the Ross ice shelf falls into the ocean, the glaciers vanish, and CO2 continues to rise, the conservative explanation is that the sun is just unusually hot. Any idiot knows that you can fill a glass box with CO2 and stick a thermometer in it and it will read higher than a thermometer in the ambient air, but they probably won't even admit that this is true. Venus is twice as hot as Mercury despite Mercury being much closer to the sun, due to Venus's CO2 atmosphere. Insistence that CO2 is benign is simply an insistence that the laws of physics are different here on Earth.

Liberals embrace science. Conservatives try to undermine it.

Why is this so? Is it pure spite? Sure seems that way sometimes.


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BEST TEAM IN THE UNIVERSE

Edited by jimbotron (01/30/10 03:22 PM)

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11923164 -

Because reality has a well-known liberal bias.

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11923173 -

Quote:
even though they have no characteristic appearance, texture, taste, or cooking properties



Source?

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Redstorm]
    #11923230 -

Apparently he didn't agree with restaurant owners who say otherwise.  Which is fine.  I certainy won't argue that they aren't more unhealthy than other fats.  I'm just waiting for him to propose that people be forced to wear fat consumption meters that give them shocks if they go over their daily limit.  Also forced calisthenics. 

He should have the right to destroy himself any way he sees fit.  I have no desire whatsoever to stop him.  Keep hitting that pipe, jimbo.


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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11924432 -

jimbotron said:
Our last President denied the theory of evolution, which has been the universal scientific consensus for over a century




I guess you could view it that way, especially if you're afraid your
sciences cant hold up to the challenge of intelligent design...
I cant understand why religion was stripped from schools other than
because the minority demanded it


Quote:
Bush told Texas newspaper reporters in a group interview at the White House on Monday that he believes that intelligent design should be taught alongside evolution as competing theories.

"Both sides ought to be properly taught . . . so people can understand what the debate is about," he said, according to an official transcript of the session. Bush added: "Part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. . . . You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes."



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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11924455 -

Oh fuck me.


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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11924516 -

hahahaha.... I'm glad someone got it

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11924626 -

Wow, you don't even understand the greenhouse effect. Also, Obama kept some stem cell research banned from receiving federal funding.

Typical liberal.

Epic Fail


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11924959 -

Quote:
Any idiot knows that you can fill a glass box with CO2 and stick a thermometer in it and it will read higher than a thermometer in the ambient air, but they probably won't even admit that this is true.



Simply changing the gas in the box from air to CO2 (without changing the pressure) will not cause the temperature to rise.  That's not the theory behind the greenhouse effect.  The separation of religion and state bit, I agree with.


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No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

Edited by pothead_bob (01/29/10 03:12 PM)

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: pothead_bob]
    #11925386 -

Holy shit, I missed that.  In fact, I missed the whole stupid global warming dogma in there.

Apparently this scientific genius has missed much in the last few months regarding scientific fraud, imaginary warming and the effects of water vapor and the ozone hole.


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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11925468 -

jimbotron said:
Any idiot knows that you can fill a glass box with CO2 and stick a thermometer in it and it will read higher than a thermometer in the ambient air, but they probably won't even admit that this is true.





:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

listen to me, a pure-blooded scientist with degrees in biochemistry, and cellular and molecular biology, when i say that you have no idea what you're talking about.



i somewhat agree with your ideas about evolution and stem cell funding however (assuming i understand your rant correctly).  but seriously, you should just drop the other horse shit.

Edited by Yrat (01/29/10 04:56 PM)

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: jimbotron]
    #11925503 -

Lol,  the theory of evolution is a theory, not fact.  That's why they call it the "theory of evolution."

define theory;

Quote:
the·o·ry  (th-r, thîr)
n. pl. the·o·ries
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.





Note that no where does it say "absolute fact" in there.

The fact that it is widely accepted does not make it a fact.

And how does one claim that liberals are the only legit scientists?  Either one follows scientific method or not. 

"liberal science" just makes me think of pseudo-science.

How can one practice science liberally? that would imply going beyond the traditional "conservative" notion of scientific method and into the realm of fantasy.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Shins]
    #11925618 -

the "theory" argument irks me more than any other argument "against" evolution, for it requires an assumption that creationism is NOT theory in itself.

evolution may be a theory, but it is a PROVEN theory.  do you know how antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria have come about?  evolution.  do you realize that the countless shapes/sizes/colors of dogs that man has domesticated from wolves also represent evolution?  of course, in this case it was man-made selection and not natural selection changing the organism, but to deny that such selective pressures can not exist in a natural environment is embarrassingly ignorant. 

evolution is a fact, just as the "theory" of gravity is, whether people like it or not. 

what i really will never get, however, is how people don't realize that evolution and creationism argue two entirely different things.  evolution doesn't explain the ORIGIN of life, only how it changes over time.  this does not at all argue against the creation of life by an intelligent supernatural omnipotent being, only against the fact that people were not created out of mud in "God's image."  the poetic picture of adam and eve is a beautiful way for some cave-dwelling stone-agers to describe their ideas for the origin of man a couple thousand years ago, but what was the extent of their science and technologies back then?  believing that god created man from scratch, a description stemming from ancient attempts to describe the unknown, is like believing the ancient myths that god throws lightning bolts to earth when he is mad.  modern technologies have described the natural phenomena behind both, yet people cling to one and laugh at the other.

who's to say that evolution isn't the process by which an intelligent being chose to give life the ability to adapt?


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Shins]
    #11925684 -

Shins said:
Lol,  the theory of evolution is a theory, not fact.  That's why they call it the "theory of evolution."




so creation should be taught along side it or both sides scraped?

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11925710 -

teach creationism alongside evolution in a biology course only if you teach evolution alongside creationism in a sociology/religious studies course.  makes sense, no?

religion has no place in a science course.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11925753 -

Both should be taught in my opinion as theories for the origins of life.  Staunchly believing that evolution is the origin of life is just as bad as believing in creationism.

Both are unproven theories,  and should be taught as such. 

Personally i believe that there is lots of evidence for evolution in the universe,  and that things evolve or change over time.  but like what has been said already;  that only explains how life changes not how or why it's created.

You also have to define what exactly "life" is which is kind of hard to do.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Yrat]
    #11925764 -

science is just another form of religion, it took faith to go against
science and claim that all matter was created from nothing, just as the
bible does the big bang does as well, it took faith to believe that a few
minerals and amino acids combined and created the first single cell
organisms, there is no proof that man evolved from these simple organism
or that any other creature did just as there's no proof that a god spake
anything into existence...

so why are we teaching one unproven idea above another

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Shins]
    #11925767 -

Shins said:
Lol,  the theory of evolution is a theory, not fact.  That's why they call it the "theory of evolution."



Your dichotomy is a bit flawed.  In science, a fact is a repeatable observation, such as: 'things dropped from a height fall to the ground' or 'bacteria change in response to environment' and 'all animals, living and fossil, have developmental and morphological similarities according to their proximity on a tree of genetic changes'.  A theory explains a collection of facts, like 'all matter attracts other matter according to an inverse square relationship to distance' or 'organisms change and diversify over many generations in response to environmental changes'.  The theory that explains all available facts best, wins.  Evolution has been winning for some time now.  'Yahweh created everything 6000 years ago' hasn't.

Quote:
Note that no where does it say "absolute fact" in there.



"absolute fact" is a nonsensical term.

Quote:
The fact that it is widely accepted does not make it a fact.



The fact that it explains the majority of the facts makes it a theory.  That it explains more than any other makes it the dominant theory.

Quote:
And how does one claim that liberals are the only legit scientists?  Either one follows scientific method or not.



I don't think anyone claimed that.  But historically, science tends to discover truths that are opposed by social conservatives.  Heliocentrism, evolution, concepts of race, mind, many many others.  Each generation tends to see conservatives fighting a vicious retreat against a new scientific understanding.

Quote:
How can one practice science liberally? that would imply going beyond the traditional "conservative" notion of scientific method and into the realm of fantasy.



There is not, to my knowledge, a "conservative" notion of science, at least not traditionally.

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #11925784 -

Prisoner#1 said:
science is just another form of religion, it took faith to go against
science and claim that all matter was created from nothing, just as the
bible does the big bang does as well, it took faith to believe that a few
minerals and amino acids combined and created the first single cell
organisms, there is no proof that man evolved from these simple organism
or that any other creature did just as there's no proof that a god spake
anything into existence...



There are enormous amounts of proof of our ascent from simpler creatures in our genome.  Read it.

Quote:
so why are we teaching one unproven idea above another



Because although neither may carry the kind of inviolate, immutable proof that the religious demand, one theory is proved sufficiently to be the basis of biology and medicine.  It holds up well to repeated experiments and anyone seeking to work in the life sciences fields have to understand it.  So to answer your question, because one theory works.  The other doesn't.

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Re: Why is science a liberal enterprise? [Re: Shins]
    #11925797 -

Shins said:
Both should be taught in my opinion as theories for the origins of life.  Staunchly believing that evolution is the origin of life is just as bad as believing in creationism.




did you even read my post?  evolution does not, in any way, describe the origin of life, only how life changes over time.  note the intent in darwin's title, "the origin of species."  as in, how species, as we see them today, came to be.  NOT how life came to be.


Quote:
Personally i believe that there is lots of evidence for evolution in the universe,  and that things evolve or change over time.  but like what has been said already;  that only explains how life changes not how or why it's created.



you're contradicting yourself

Quote:
You also have to define what exactly "life" is which is kind of hard to do.



actually that's quite easy.  have you ever taken a course in biology?  even at the high school level?

here's a few definitions i found with a simple search:

Quote:
Life (cf. biota) is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have self-sustaining biological processes from those that do not[1][2] —either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as "inanimate."[3]

In biology, the science of living organisms, "life" is the condition which distinguishes active organisms from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, functional activity and the continual change preceding death.[4][5]


(from wikipedia)

another: life (lf)
n. pl. lives (lvz)
1. The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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