Home | Community | Message Board


Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Ranch Dressing, Scales

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Liberation US style...
    #1416397 - 03/29/03 02:42 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Remember the glorious effort to "liberate" the suffering people of Vietnam..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,923715,00.html

Nearly 30 years after the Vietnam war, a chemical weapon used by US troops is still exacting a hideous toll on each new generation. Cathy Scott-Clark and Adrian Levy report

Saturday March 29, 2003
The Guardian

Hong Hanh is falling to pieces. She has been poisoned by the most toxic molecule known to science; it was sprayed during a prolonged military campaign. The contamination persists. No redress has been offered, no compensation. The superpower that spread the toxin has done nothing to combat the medical and environmental catastrophe that is overwhelming her country. This is not northern Iraq, where Saddam Hussein gassed 5,000 Kurds in 1988. Nor the trenches of first world war France. Hong Hanh's story, and that of many more like her, is quietly unfolding in Vietnam today. Her declining half-life is spent unseen, in her home, an unremarkable concrete box in Ho Chi Minh City, filled with photographs, family plaques and yellow enamel stars, a place where the best is made of the worst.

Hong Hanh is both surprising and terrifying. Here is a 19-year-old who lives in a 10-year-old's body. She clatters around with disjointed spidery strides which leave her soaked in sweat. When she cannot stop crying, soothing creams and iodine are rubbed into her back, which is a lunar collage of septic blisters and scabs. "My daughter is dying," her mother says. "My youngest daughter is 11 and she has the same symptoms. What should we do? Their fingers and toes stick together before they drop off. Their hands wear down to stumps. Every day they lose a little more skin. And this is not leprosy. The doctors say it is connected to American chemical weapons we were exposed to during the Vietnam war."

There are an estimated 650,000 like Hong Hanh in Vietnam, suffering from an array of baffling chronic conditions. Another 500,000 have already died. The thread that weaves through all their case histories is defoliants deployed by the US military during the war. Some of the victims are veterans who were doused in these chemicals during the war, others are farmers who lived off land that was sprayed. The second generation are the sons and daughters of war veterans, or children born to parents who lived on contaminated land. Now there is a third generation, the grandchildren of the war and its victims.

This is a chain of events bitterly denied by the US government. Millions of litres of defoliants such as Agent Orange were dropped on Vietnam, but US government scientists claimed that these chemicals were harmless to humans and short-lived in the environment. US strategists argue that Agent Orange was a prototype smart weapon, a benign tactical herbicide that saved many hundreds of thousands of American lives by denying the North Vietnamese army the jungle cover that allowed it ruthlessly to strike and feint. New scientific research, however, confirms what the Vietnamese have been claiming for years. It also portrays the US government as one that has illicitly used weapons of mass destruction, stymied all independent efforts to assess the impact of their deployment, failed to acknowledge cold, hard evidence of maiming and slaughter, and pursued a policy of evasion and deception.

Teams of international scientists working in Vietnam have now discovered that Agent Orange contains one of the most virulent poisons known to man, a strain of dioxin called TCCD which, 28 years after the fighting ended, remains in the soil, continuing to destroy the lives of those exposed to it. Evidence has also emerged that the US government not only knew that Agent Orange was contaminated, but was fully aware of the killing power of its contaminant dioxin, and yet still continued to use the herbicide in Vietnam for 10 years of the war and in concentrations that exceeded its own guidelines by 25 times. As well as spraying the North Vietnamese, the US doused its own troops stationed in the jungle, rather than lose tactical advantage by having them withdraw.

In December 1969, President Nixon made a radical and controversial pledge that America would never use chemical weapons in a first strike. He made no mention of Vietnam or Agent Orange, and the US government continued dispatching supplies of herbicides to the South Vietnamese regime until 1974.

By the time the war finally ended in 1975, more than 10% of Vietnam had been intensively sprayed with 72 million litres of chemicals, of which 66% was Agent Orange, laced with its super-strain of toxic TCCD. But even these figures, contained in recently declassified US military records, vastly underestimate the true scale of the spraying. In confidential statements made to US scientists, former Ranch Hand pilots allege that, in addition to the recorded missions, there were 26,000 aborted operations during which 260,000 gallons of herbicide were dumped. US military regulations required all spray planes or helicopters to return to base empty and one pilot, formerly stationed at Bien Hoa air base between 1968 and 1969, claims that he regularly jettisoned his chemical load into the Long Binh reservoir. "These herbicides should never have been used in the way that they were used," says the pilot, who has asked not to be identified.

Almost immediately after the war finished, US veterans began reporting chronic conditions, skin disorders, asthma, cancers, gastrointestinal diseases. Their babies were born limbless or with Down's syndrome and spina bifida. But it would be three years before the US department of veterans' affairs reluctantly agreed to back a medical investigation, examining 300,000 former servicemen - only a fraction of those who had complained of being sick - with the government warning all participants that it was indemnified from lawsuits brought by them. When rumours began circulating that President Reagan had told scientists not to make "any link" between Agent Orange and the deteriorating health of veterans, the victims lost patience with their government and sued the defoliant manufacturers in an action that was finally settled out of court in 1984 for $180m (?115m).

There is cash to be lavished in Vietnam when the US government sees it as politically expedient. Over the past 10 years, more than $350m (?223m) has been spent on chasing ghosts. In 1992, the US launched the Joint Task Force-Full Accounting to locate 2,267 servicemen thought to be missing in action in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. Jerry O'Hara, spokesman for JTF-FA, which is still searching for the remains of 1,889 of them, told us, "We don't place a monetary value on what we do and we'll be here until we have brought all of the boys back home."

So it is that America continues to spend considerably more on the dead than it does on the millions of living and long-suffering - be they back home or in Vietnam.

The science of chemical warfare fills a silent, white-tiled room at Tu Du hospital in Ho Chi Minh City. Here, shelves are overburdened with research materials. Behind the locked door is an iridescent wall of the mutated and misshapen, hundreds of bell jars and vacuum-sealed bottles in which human foetuses float in formaldehyde. Some appear to be sleeping, fingers curling their hair, thumbs pressing at their lips, while others with multiple heads and mangled limbs are listless and slumped. Thankfully, none of these dioxin babies ever woke up.

One floor below, it is never quiet. Here are those who have survived the misery of their births, ravaged infants whom no one has the ability to understand, babies so traumatised by their own disabilities, luckless children so enraged and depressed at their miserable fate, that they are tied to their beds just to keep them safe from harm





--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1416406 - 03/29/03 03:02 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

One floor below, it is never quiet. Here are those who have survived the misery of their births, ravaged infants whom no one has the ability to understand, babies so traumatised by their own disabilities, luckless children so enraged and depressed at their miserable fate, that they are tied to their beds just to keep them safe from harm


Why not put them out of their misery?


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1416475 - 03/29/03 04:51 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Alex, Shit happens! Lets post about atrocities against indians next, it's all history. USA is evil, blah blah blah.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1416490 - 03/29/03 05:08 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Those who ignore the lessons of history are forever condemned to repeat them.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Xlea321]
    #1416498 - 03/29/03 05:18 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I was joking. Sorry, I should have used a wink icon in that post.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 months, 22 days
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1416501 - 03/29/03 05:24 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Those who dwell on the past can't see the future


--------------------
Be all and you'll be to end all


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: mntlfngrs]
    #1416503 - 03/29/03 05:28 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Only God can see the future.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1416507 - 03/29/03 05:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Only man can create god. :wink:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Skikid16]
    #1416510 - 03/29/03 05:38 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Where did matter and energy come from?


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1416514 - 03/29/03 05:41 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know, where?


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,044
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 9 hours, 43 minutes
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Skikid16]
    #1416515 - 03/29/03 05:42 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

From God, and that's what people are made of.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1416519 - 03/29/03 05:48 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

People are made of God or matter and energy?

Anyways, you can believe in god, I'm convinced that there is no need to try to argue with others about inarguable things, I'm too tired.


Always a pleasure.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Skikid16]
    #1416739 - 03/29/03 12:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

well this thread went down the tubes quick...I think the point more or less is that we've murdered FAR more people in all our American years than Saddam could ever hope to. Yet he's EVIL.. and must be stopped!


--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: FatNug]
    #1416766 - 03/29/03 01:07 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

FatNug writes:

I think the point more or less is that we've murdered FAR more people in all our American years than Saddam could ever hope to.

Incorrect. Source, please?

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Liberation US style... [Re: Phred]
    #1416780 - 03/29/03 01:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Incorrect. Source, please?

Incorrect. Source, please?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Ranch Dressing, Scales

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Iraq isn't another Vietnam
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
Xlea321 5,274 89 05/28/04 10:12 AM
by CJay
* MLK: Beyond Vietnam IgnatiusJReilly 610 5 09/02/07 01:06 PM
by IgnatiusJReilly
* Denial: From Vietnam to Fallujah Zahid 740 9 08/26/04 10:28 PM
by Zahid
* How is it possible to be conservative?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
MisterKite 3,425 91 03/07/06 08:27 PM
by Dmonikal
* Mistakes of Vietnam repeated with Iraq SquattingMarmot 781 15 09/21/03 03:59 AM
by Xlea321
* US Generals: Iraq far Graver than Vietnam SquattingMarmot 739 9 09/18/04 01:45 AM
by The_Red_Crayon
* VIETNAM shroommachine 933 6 02/14/05 04:29 PM
by JesusChrist
* Vietnam vets in Iraq see 'entirely different war' lonestar2004 876 11 08/07/05 01:27 PM
by Redstorm

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
599 topic views. 3 members, 1 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.066 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.