LiquidSmoke said:

I still dont think Lesnar's proven much by beating Couture and Mir.



This wasn't the first time Mir had been ground and pounded to submission, Pe De Pano, Brandon Vera were both able to do this.



And Randy Couture is the best stylistic mathcup possible to cater for Brock Lesnar....a smaller, weaker, older wrestler.



Lesnar has yet to fight a really dangerously slick subission fighter, i'd love to see him in there trying to ground and pound Fabricio Werdum.

And Lesnars also never been cracked before, or even been threatened to get hit by any decently strong puncher.

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I think the winner of Shane Carwin v. Cain Velasquez is going to beat  Brock...   

Carwin especially  is a nightmare match up for Brock.  He is a fucking beast who can knock you out as fast as submit you, and he is as big as Brock.  Ask  Gabriel Gonzaga, Neil Wain, and  Christian Wellisch if Carwin can hit.  Also this is a guy who fights out of Jackson's Submission Fighting, and trains along side some great fighter including GSP.  I think he will fucking dominate Brock.. 

Same story for Cain Velasquez.. Not as big as Brock height wise, but has knocked out almost everybody he has fought.  Great wrestling background to counter Brock.. Also he is coming out of American Kickboxing Academy.  You got allot of talent in that camp as well including Cung Le, and Josh Thomson .

Carwin Vs Velasquez i believe is going to yield the next UFC Heavyweight champion before 2010 if the fight is signed before hand.

Jadian said:

I don't really see him doing anything different than anybody else who's put into the situation of having to treat fighters as assets.  He has to de-humanize every fighter essentially to do his job right, hence why him putting Liddell into retirement seems very out of character since he can still milk a huge paycheck out of him. 

Do I like it?  No.  Do I think it's the reason the UFC has succeeded where others have failed? Probably. 

In a business sense fighters are assets, plain and simple.  Assets don't have desires, don't have concerns, and don't choose their own path. 

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Jadian said:

The slump in 2001-2003 was more political than anything.  They were banned from TV and PPV, how do you run a company that can't market it's product?

I know what you're saying, I just don't agree with you.  Even though you think I wasn't paying attention to fights back then, I was, I just stopped paying attention to the UFC because they stopped promoting and being relevant.

You're basically saying Pride did a better job than the UFC with everything.... yet where are they now?  You can't even say White and the Fertita's don't run the UFC as a business successfully, they're far and above the best run fight business in the world!

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I don't know why helping forumulate a reality show isn't considered a wise business decision?

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Noetical said:

I don't know why helping forumulate a reality show isn't considered a wise business decision?

Sure they make some fuckin odd choices at times but if thats all they did they wouldn't have a company.

Dumb luck couldn't have taken them this far.

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The 'UFC' has made themselves bigger then everyone of their fighters, just like the WWF.

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LiquidSmoke said:

and the UFC will continue to be a carrousell of talent, rather than an anchor to all the top fighters in the world.

Most people just forget about various fighters.  They don't even notice when a top ranked guy is no longer fighting in the organization.

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Jadian said:

You're talking about catering to 3-4 fighters and forgetting about the rest of them.  We're arguing two different sides of something here, actually you aren't even arguing anything just being arrogant and repeating points that aren't really related to what I'm saying anyway. 

I fight.  Do I agree with how promoters treat fighters? No. 

Would I say forget any other fight promotions to sign with the UFC?  Yup, and it's not because they'll treat me better.  So then if I win 5 fights in a row, get my title shot, and win it, I deserve to make all my own demands and rewrite my own contracts?  Sure in an ideal world, not in a fucking business.

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Randy Couture is my favorite fighter in the world, and a great guy in general.  Do I think Dana White should have just given in to all his demands just because he'd been with the company for 7 years and had won a few belts? FUCK NO.  The guy is making half a million per fight, he can get over the licensing rights to his image and the fact that he fights who his boss wants him to.  Is Jim Miller, or Mike Swick, or Chael Sonnen going to be able to start demanding things they never got before?

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The fact is the UFC rewards winning and rewards good performances more than any other organization, they give out huge bonuses every fight card (most of the time larger than the checks the guy gets for fighting+his win bonus), and there's hundreds of fighters trying to get into the UFC.  I think they're doing ok with how they treat their fighters regardless of the fact that they don't cater to every whim of their champions. 

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It's a business, bottom line. And they do it well, or over half of the people who "left" for various disputed reasons wouldn't have come back.  Those guys were all very talented and very smart fighters outside of the ring, they could have found other work if they wanted.

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Jadian said:

My larger issue with his treatment of fighters is how he deals with younger, newer fighters who don't make enough to cover their hospital visit.  He shouldn't be trying to cater to each fighters needs but he should be paying them all more and more equally.  (Lesnar has made more in one fight than the payroll of an entire UFN event, and probably some lower-quality UFC PPV's)

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