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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: the bizzle]
    #10845862 -

I have trouble believing you guys didn't know about desoxyn... i mean tweak is sched II


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i am caustic

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10845906 -

Swyfty Swyf said:
If GHB was so deadly, wouldn't there be a few articles about some deaths attributed to it?


there are, you opt not to believe them

Quote:
How am I to be burdened to proove GHB's safety?
Shouldn't the burden of proof be upon someone showing valid proof otherwise?




were these not your claims?


Swyfty Swyf said:
I don't think GHB should even be scheduled.

It is structurally quite different than most drugs.

It actually falls within the definition of a food supplement.

It is totally non-toxic and it is a safer sleep aid than even OTC sleeping pills.

GHB is present in every cell in the human body.

If they can outlaw this stuff (which they have),

they can outlaw vitamins.  :nonono:




Quote:
And I'm not interested in articles about people who died behind the wheel while they were G'd out.

I'm talking OD's where alcohol wasn't a factor and deaths attributed to GHB withdrawal.


most people that use GHB dont do so as their drug of choice,
they tend to be poly drug users, some that are under the
influence of the drug dont even know they're on it because it
wasnt their choice, of course it's not the drug to blame but the
person dispensing it that is ultimately responsible for the death

or maybe the drug is also responsible

http://www.labmeeting.com/paper/28917637/zvosec-2009-three-deaths-associated-with-use-of-xyrem%28%28r%29%29


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10845907 -

It is each member's own respnsibility to take care of themselves.

I haven't said anything to encourage people to be irresponsible,

and I haven't given dosage advice.

I am just skeptical of the supposed "dangers" of GHB that the media assures us there are.


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If you build it they will shrug.
:shrug:

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10846020 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Swyfty Swyf said:
How am I to be burdened to proove GHB's safety?
Shouldn't the burden of proof be upon someone showing valid proof otherwise?




were these not your claims?


Swyfty Swyf said:
I don't think GHB should even be scheduled.

It is structurally quite different than most drugs.

It actually falls within the definition of a food supplement.

It is totally non-toxic and it is a safer sleep aid than even OTC sleeping pills.

GHB is present in every cell in the human body.

If they can outlaw this stuff (which they have),

they can outlaw vitamins.  :nonono:






http://www.labmeeting.com/paper/28917637/zvosec-2009-three-deaths-associated-with-use-of-xyrem%28%28r%29%29


They are my claims.

Can you debunk them?

That link was only one paragraph long with little to no details about three deaths theorized to be caused by GHB.

They even said within that one paragraph that test were being done to find whether or not sleep apnea or obesity could have been compound factors.

At one time, GHB was the sensation that Salvia is now in the media.

Everyone wanted to report on GHB deaths, so it was easy for journalists to get doctors to go on record saying that GHB was found in the deceased's system, seeing as how every cell of our bodies have a little GHB in them.

Granted, one out of the three deceased mentioned was actually reported to have high levels of GHB in his system.

But what about the other two?


--------------------
If you build it they will shrug.
:shrug:

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10846400 -

your claims... you're supposed to back them up

as a whole, we should be looking out for each other, while I may
not know you personally I certainly wouldnt want to see any harm
come to you especially due a claim I may have made regarding the
toxicity of a drug


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10846431 -

wait, so GHB is not toxic at all? AWESOME...me and my friend who don't take the time to research things ourselves couldn't decide whether or not to split this gallon jug between us, and now we've made our decision.

Good lookin' out, bro! Tonight is gonna rulke!
:highfive:


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

Edited by the bizzle (08/12/09 04:39 PM)

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10846686 -

Swyfty Swyf said:
Yeah, I've seen people G out plenty.

I've also seen people get stupid drunk.

It doesn't mean I should by default believe that the withdrawals from either can be fatal.

GHB in moderation is probably safer than alcohol in moderation.



:facepalm:

Yeah ok, go with "probably safer" because that's your opinion and it's contrary to what people with scientific backgrounds have to say about it. That usually works out well.

You've already had 2 or 3 people tell you that GHB is a GABA agonist as are alcohol and benzos, both of which have potentially fatal withdrawals. Do you know what a GABA agonist means? That's neuroscience talk for "works on the same cells/systems in the brain that alcohol and benzos do."

Do you really need  a god damn scientific paper to believe it's a GABA agonist and withdrawal from GABA agonists can cause fatal seizures? It's a fact. Plain and simple fact.

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? It seems like you're just ignoring everything that every intelligent person has said in this thread.

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
    #10846692 -

Here read this..

GHB withdrawal causing Delirium Tremens, convulsions and psychotic agitation requiring hundreds of milligrams of Ativan to subdue - compared in severity and nature with alcohol & bezodiazepine withdrawal symptoms.

Normal pills of ativan are 0.5-2.5mg


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Edited by Asante (08/12/09 05:12 PM)

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10846756 -

Swyfty Swyf said:
GHB in moderation is probably safer than alcohol in moderation.


Much much safer.





Prisoner#1 said:
alcohol in moderation is quite safe and even healthy, is this also true of GHB?





Yes, GHB is neuro protective.  It is good for you.




My main point still is that GHB is physically addictive and will produce acute withdrawal syndrome that potentially can be fatal.  It's very unlikely to cause death probably less than a 0.001% chance of death (yes I made that up but I believe that risk is that small)  The reaon I mention the potential of death is to show how nasty the withdrawals can be. 

GHB like anything is safe in moderation but if abused daily for a long period it has the ability to cause very serious problems.


This is just common sense and swyftys arguing against those facts is dangerously negligent.


--------------------
Want to know who is ignoring you?  Press Alt + F4 for the full list.



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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Gumby]
    #10846775 -

Gumby said:
Swyfty Swyf said:
Yeah, I've seen people G out plenty.

I've also seen people get stupid drunk.

It doesn't mean I should by default believe that the withdrawals from either can be fatal.

GHB in moderation is probably safer than alcohol in moderation.



:facepalm:

Yeah ok, go with "probably safer" because that's your opinion and it's contrary to what people with scientific backgrounds have to say about it. That usually works out well.

You've already had 2 or 3 people tell you that GHB is a GABA agonist as are alcohol and benzos, both of which have potentially fatal withdrawals. Do you know what a GABA agonist means? That's neuroscience talk for "works on the same cells/systems in the brain that alcohol and benzos do."

Do you really need  a god damn scientific paper to believe it's a GABA agonist and withdrawal from GABA agonists can cause fatal seizures? It's a fact. Plain and simple fact.

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? It seems like you're just ignoring everything that every intelligent person has said in this thread.



Well said.


--------------------
Want to know who is ignoring you?  Press Alt + F4 for the full list.



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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: RupturedHernia]
    #10846796 -

LOL!


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MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: the bizzle]
    #10846801 -

the bizzle said:
LOL!


:highfive:


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: RupturedHernia]
    #10846883 -

Quote:
GHB is neuro protective.  It is good for you.



Ketamine is neuroprotective too, fancy a daily snort of that? :coaster:


My guess would be that since 25ml alcohol a day is considered safe, this is the equivalent of GHB that would be safe.  But how much would that be? 0.25-0.5gr daily? Its barely recreational in that quantity, given the steep dose/response curve.

Though of benzos, this is relevant too:

Quote:
The long-term adverse effects of benzodiazepines include a general deterioration in physical and mental health and tend to increase with time. Not everyone however, experiences problems with long-term use. The adverse effects can include cognitive impairments and affective and behavioural problems. Feelings of turmoil, difficulty in thinking constructively, loss of sex-drive, agoraphobia and social phobia, increasing anxiety and depression, loss of interest in leisure pursuits and interests, an inability to experience or express feelings also occurs.[10][65] Additionally an altered perception of self, environment and relationships may occur.[64]


Thats a function of chronic GABA agonist use.


If I find the perfect pill to pop for a lifetime of chemical bliss I'll make it a global sticky, but EVERY SINGLE DRUG I looked at for that much sought after holy grail had the most nasty gremlins coming out of the woodwork upon critical scrutiny of the longterm effects.

Nothings harmless, everyone who critically researched a lot of drugs knows this. No equally valid substitute for sobriety exists.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Asante]
    #10846885 -

I've got some sources too:

Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid: patterns of use, effects and withdrawal.
Quote:
High frequency users appeared at the greatest risk for developing withdrawal delirium and psychosis after abrupt discontinuation of GHB use.



Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid: an emerging recreational drug.
Quote:
Common adverse effects include a rapid onset of drowsiness, nausea, vomiting, myoclonic seizures and coma of short duration


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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: RupturedHernia]
    #10846920 -

RupturedHernia said:
Gumby said:
Swyfty Swyf said:
Yeah, I've seen people G out plenty.

I've also seen people get stupid drunk.

It doesn't mean I should by default believe that the withdrawals from either can be fatal.

GHB in moderation is probably safer than alcohol in moderation.



:facepalm:

Yeah ok, go with "probably safer" because that's your opinion and it's contrary to what people with scientific backgrounds have to say about it. That usually works out well.

You've already had 2 or 3 people tell you that GHB is a GABA agonist as are alcohol and benzos, both of which have potentially fatal withdrawals. Do you know what a GABA agonist means? That's neuroscience talk for "works on the same cells/systems in the brain that alcohol and benzos do."

Do you really need  a god damn scientific paper to believe it's a GABA agonist and withdrawal from GABA agonists can cause fatal seizures? It's a fact. Plain and simple fact.

Are you arguing just for the sake of arguing? It seems like you're just ignoring everything that every intelligent person has said in this thread.



Well said.



lets not cloud this discussion with facts!


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Asante]
    #10846924 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Ketamine is neuroprotective too, fancy a daily snort of that? :coaster:


most appropriate use of the graemlin yet

Quote:
Nothings harmless


try telling this to some of these potheads


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10847004 -

Gumby: yeah I knew about Desoxyn,thats some potent shit!!

I just dont understand how our government can break its own laws...I mean this Xyrem drug is marketed under Sodium Oxybate,same EXACT chemical and molecular structure of GHB,so how can it be under two schedules at the same time?
I just dont understand...its some bullshit imo,I mean Im glad that the FDA allowed use of GHB by prescription but how can they put a drug in two schedules?
Besides Codeine,codeine is scheduled all the way from II-V but thats just because in ScheduleII preparations it is either codeine by its self or in combo's with codeine having 90+mg's...scheduleIII codeine a little bit less abuse and addictive potential,scheduleIV a little less,and shceduleV hardly any codeine at all...blah blah balh
Okay,anyways,this isnt just some state law that says its okay,like Marijuana being Federally a scheduleI and then a state saying its okay to use it,this is on Federal level saying okay GHB is scheduleI meaning its illegal to manufacture,posses,prescribe,etc...but now the Feds(FDA mainly)is saying okay GHB can be marketed as Xyrem as ScheduleIII...
I know I make it sound confusing but you all understand what I mean...Its just bullshit that they can simply do whatever they want,place a drug in whatever category they want,and then do this.This just goes to prove that our Government is WHACK!They suck dick,and they can give great Blow Jobs;)
IDK...this type of shit just gets me all wound up tighter than an asian pussy..lol
I should be an activist I suppose..shouldnt we all!
Okay,now for more discussion!
Peace
PF~


--------------------
"Follow the medicine path with an open mind and a clear heart, and you will surely find inner peace and enlightenment."

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: pfshroomer]
    #10847024 -

check out all the money that's made,
"Although GHB can be synthesized easily from inexpensive chemicals, the price for Xyrem is high, and many insurance plans do not cover it......

....Like most newly-approved drugs, Xyrem is produced by only one manufacturer, which in this case is also the only approved retailer. Thus, the price is not likely to drop due to competitive pressure. In actuality, the price has steadily increased in the last 3 years. At the beginning of 2007, the same dose cost roughly around $900–$1,000. As of January 2009, that same dose now costs just under $1,500, and actually increased by a little more than $400 in the year 2008 alone.

As of May 15, 2009, the standard monthly supply of Xyrem cost $2,000. Keep in mind, that this is medicine that patients need to take for their entire lives. The patents Jazz holds on Xyrem will not expire until 2020.There seems to be no limit on what Jazz Pharmaceuticals can and will charge for this medicine."


:facepalm:

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: pfshroomer]
    #10847051 -

Exactly because the gov't said they can make it and the gov't is getting some $ out of the deal,plus tax dollars on this med...just crazy man,I agree!
And,your right about Jazz being the only retailer,and something else thats fucked up is that no Pharmacist can handle this med,you have to get it straight from Jazz...Thats why you usually dont see it on the street!
Peace


--------------------
"Follow the medicine path with an open mind and a clear heart, and you will surely find inner peace and enlightenment."

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Re: Xyrem legal GHB [Re: pfshroomer]
    #10847096 -

I'm kinda flabbergasted about how they got a patent on a chemical that was already VERY well known. That's just fucking dumb. Maybe it's some new super-active stereoisomer?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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