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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: TGRR]
    #10083030 -

:confused:


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: TGRR]
    #10083258 -

dill705 said:
Yeah, I notice that as well. The conservatives around here have good intentions, they just like to grill the other side much more intensely than they do their own side.


TGRR said:
dill705 said:
Seuss said:
> why is the Government using my tax money to save these sorry ass companies!

Because there are a lot of union votes that go to the democrats that will be lost if Obama lets the companies fail.


You do realize that Bush started this, right?



Who? 

Remember:  Democrats are responsible for shit 65 years after they leave office.  GOP are exonerated the moment they shuffle off to Dallas.



look i totally agree that the republicans jumped on the spending wagon.

but now the democrats have jumped on the TRAIN!


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10083443 -

lonestar2004 said:
but now the democrats have jumped on the TRAIN!


No argument there.  They've become a self-parody.  Time for them to exit stage right, like the Whigs back in the day.  They're a joke.

But they didn't do this mess all alone.  This was done by Bubba (D-Fat Young Intern) and Phil Gramm (R-TX), back in 1999.


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What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10084281 -

lonestar2004 said:
luvdemshrooms said:
lonestar2004 said:
my dad bought me a Chevy S-10 for my 16th birthday. man i loved that truck!

Now i will never buy another GM or Chrysler product. I hope Ford stays away from the government.


Cubie said:
ford makes chevy>????????????????????????


Could it be he's saying he won't buy a GM or Chrysler since they took bailout money but Ford is still a viable choice?



thats exactly what I'm saying.

i still don't understand what Cubie is saying?



i dunno man i must have been baked, lol


--------------------

Sid and Mr. Madhat <part one> A story by Cubie P. Cubensis
<> I WANNA SMOKE THIS BOWL <> <A comic by Cubie P. Cubensis>

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: TGRR]
    #10084899 -

TGRR said:
ScavengerType said:
lonestar your argument that nationalizing auto manufacturing is bad is the history of a company made by nationalization that rose to be arguably one of the best quality manufacturers in the world? Oh wait just cause Hitler nationalized it and funded it, it's automatically an evil action? Ya know I also heard Hitler listened to music and ate food oh and he was elected. Democracy/music/food = Hitler.


Hitler was not elected.  He was appointed by Hindenburg.


Actually he was elected and appointed.


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: Cubie]
    #10086227 -

Cubie said:
i dunno man i must have been baked, lol


:lol:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: Icelander]
    #10086284 -

Icelander said:
lonestar2004 said:
we are getting so fucked i can't believe the people have not started rioting! maybe we deserve what we get....



Hey we get to agree on something, but most likely not when the rioting should have begun.:satansmoking:

In general populations always get what they deserve IMO.




G20 Protests Turn Violent









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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10088377 -

I don't know or care how good of a CEO Wagoner was or wasn't, isn't it up to the SHARE HOLDERS and the board of directors to decide if the CEO should be fired? 

Don't try to say that the government "owns" part of GM because of the bail outs, these are loans, the government did not buy shares of GM stock.

What the hell gives the government the right to dictate how a buisness should run?  Especially when these government mandated "buisness" decisions are made by career politicians with no buisness experience.  All they will do is what looks best for them to remain popular and in power, while running the company into the ground, then use our tax dollars to prop the company up to keep their image up.  I love our "democracy."

Why are the shareholders not raising hell about this?  Oh yeah, their stocks are worthless, they probably don't care anymore.

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: acid_kiss]
    #10088550 -

acid_kiss said:
I don't know or care how good of a CEO Wagoner was or wasn't, isn't it up to the SHARE HOLDERS and the board of directors to decide if the CEO should be fired? 



Sure.  On the other hand, if they want the loan, they can deal with the conditions attached to it.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: acid_kiss]
    #10089305 -

Quote:
What the hell gives the government the right to dictate how a buisness should run?  Especially when these government mandated "buisness" decisions are made by career politicians with no buisness experience.


It seems to me that GM has 2 options, go hat in hand to the government and ask for a bailout loan, or file for bankruptcy, presumably Chapter 11 to give itself an opportunity to reorganize and reemerge as a profitable company.

If GM did the latter and filed for Chapter 11, who do you think would dictate how the company would be run? Who would have a hand in overseeing the decisions GM makes as it attempts to return to solvency? The federal government, specifically a federal court-appointed government trustee.

once a company files chapter 11, the trustee has the right/duty to go over the company's operations w/ a fine tooth comb, impose reporting requirements, monitor the company's plans to restructure, or to secure more credit. the trustee can also evaluate the company's biz plan and opine on its long term viability as a solvent business.

The main difference between GM accepting a bailout loan w/ a bunch of conditions attached (like the CEO's sacking) and GM filing for Ch 11 is that w/ the  bailout loan, the goverment seems to be more concerned w/ keeping GM afloat as a company and its employees employed. Ch 11 government oversight would only be concerned w/ protecting the rights of GM's creditors. If GM can't convince the trustee and the trustee-appointed creditors' committee that it can reemerge as a viable company, it's likely that it goes out of business, thousands lose their jobs, and GM's assets are liquidated. (Obviously the other difference is that GM wouldn't be getting any taxpayer money if it filed Ch 11.)

Maybe Obama prefers to give a big bailout loan over GM filing for Ch 11 b/c he deems the domestic auto industry "too big to fail?"

Maybe Obama is bailing out the auto companies b/c through Ch 11 restructuring, the unions' contracts could somehow become null and void and he wants to protect the unions as payback helping him get elected?

He's probably doing it for both reasons. but regardless of GM's course of action, Wagoner would be gone and the government would have its ladle dipped into the shit stew that is the American Auto Industry.


--------------------
If it weren't for the bloody corpses, I wouldn't have any corpses at all.

There are two ways to get to the top of an oak tree: start climbing or sit on an acorn.

Are you a carrot, an egg, or a coffee bean?

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: MrBump]
    #10090247 -

You may be right I had presumed that the bailouts would fail because the companies are so developmentally backward it would take them years to catch up to where their competitors are never mind actually compete with future problems in the industry like Tata motors.

The unemployment problem that letting these two companies fail presents is serious though. However there could be an upside to this sort of economic re-formatting. Economist Thomas Freedman mentioned in his book "Hot Flat and Crowded" that European countries were looking seriously at outsourcing manufacturing jobs in fields such as solar panel manufacturing to the US because of it's falling dollar. That sort of manufacturing that you can't, or would rather not, outsource to China or India... presumably.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (04/02/09 12:59 AM)

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10090996 -

even though its not the governments place to step i n like this it is the governments place to ensure that the country has a future in the world economy and if this is what is required then so be it


--------------------

Sid and Mr. Madhat <part one> A story by Cubie P. Cubensis
<> I WANNA SMOKE THIS BOWL <> <A comic by Cubie P. Cubensis>

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: Cubie]
    #10094931 -

Cubie said:
even though its not the governments place to step i n like this it is the governments place to ensure that the country has a future in the world economy and if this is what is required then so be it



i wonder what Government controlled capitalism is called?

its not socialism.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10095732 -

interventionism or interventionist.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10095797 -

Quote:
i wonder what Government controlled capitalism is called?


Fascism. No, seriously... it is called Fascism. See http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9094010#9094010




Phred


--------------------

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: Phred]
    #10095822 -

in a more extreme variation complicated by other national policies yes, but as the US is currently it is clearly an interventionism.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10095896 -

Here's a question. What do you call a government that sits on it's hands and watches the economy implode while refusing to take action?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10095961 -

Intelligent.



Phred


--------------------

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10095978 -

ScavengerType said:
Here's a question. What do you call a government that sits on it's hands and watches the economy implode while refusing to take action?


Correct.

Proper.

Wise.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: OBAMA DEMANDED GM'S CEO RESIGN [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10096115 -

One that knows its limitations


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