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Invisiblesweetsweet
Stranger Danger
Female


Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 1,650
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9386109 - 12/07/08 04:18 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I live in an expensive part of town and my rent is only 430 (including heat, water, internet, etc.). I could find rent for about $200, but the location would be horrible. Move some place cheaper!


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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Registered: 12/18/06
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9386112 - 12/07/08 04:19 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
when i get old

im gonna sit around my house shooting up

or something equally as wreckless

fuck it why not at that point




that's exactly my plan too haha.  I'll have an opium garden in my back yard.


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 8,940
Loc: Flag
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9386116 - 12/07/08 04:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sweetsweet said:
I live in an expensive part of town and my rent is only 430 (including heat, water, internet, etc.). I could find rent for about $200, but the location would be horrible. Move some place cheaper!




what state you live in? unless you don't wanna say.  I pay 489 for a two bedroom I don't even like paying that much it was 429.


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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth

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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9386121 - 12/07/08 04:20 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sweetsweet said:
I live in an expensive part of town and my rent is only 430 (including heat, water, internet, etc.). I could find rent for about $200, but the location would be horrible. Move some place cheaper!




yeah I think it's because it's the Suburbs around D.C.  I'm planning on moving to a rural area in PA which is only $600 a month for rent and the apartment is nice not junk.


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Invisiblesweetsweet
Stranger Danger
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 1,650
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #9386135 - 12/07/08 04:23 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I live in Michigan near a college campus--where rent is sky-high. I used to live in outside of Flint where you could rent a small, one bedroom house for 450 (in a nice area also).


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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9386155 - 12/07/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

wow I guess I live in one of the richest parts of the country.  Fucking perfect! :foreheadslap:


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
I'M GOD
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Registered: 03/26/06
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9386156 - 12/07/08 04:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Well I live in Ohio but most other states a pretty expensive we got it good, despite the fact no one delivers food here from being robbed too much it's still a decent place.


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"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth

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Invisiblesweetsweet
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Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 1,650
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9386173 - 12/07/08 04:29 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

What state are you from? East coast?

I live in co-ops also, making my rent significantly cheaper. Other students pay at least double, sometimes triple my rent, AND have to share a room with somebody. Fuck that, I need my privacy.


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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: sweetsweet]
    #9386193 - 12/07/08 04:33 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

sweetsweet said:
What state are you from? East coast?





me?  Northern Virginia,  it's the suburbs of Washington D.C.  I'm not a student though.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9387105 - 12/07/08 06:43 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
I personally don't want to grow old.  The thought of it kind of makes me sick.  What about you guys?




Same here.  I'm not afraid of death per se, but I'm afraid of my organs slowly growing decrepit, my mind growing less acute, and my health declining to the point where I can no longer take care of myself.

Quote:

AmericanPsycho said:
Agian, driving drunk has the possibility of killing someone or hurting them physically, suicide does not.




You don't think a parent whose child has just committed suicide won't possibly kill themselves too?  It's not for certain, but then again it's not for certain that a drunk driver will kill someone while they're out on the road.

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
People who commit suicide are selfish, plain and simple.




Couldn't one argue that those who would rather he continue to suffer than endure the grief that would result from his death are equally, if not more selfish?

Another common sentiment that I take issue with is the idea that suicide is "a cowardly act."  I don't want to promote or glorify suicide, but, all things considered, it's actually pretty fucking brave.




More selfish?  We're weighing one person's misery vs. the potential misery of countless others; if we go by a utilitarian ethic we would conclude that the single person is far more selfish.

Also, how are you defining brave?  If you mean the courage to venture into the unknown, sure.  But it's still pretty damn courageous to try and beat the odds and continue living when every fiber of your being wants to just give up the ghost.

Quote:

anyone420 said:
your not only making mortally ill people suffer out there lives, but potentially making their family members suffer.  a true loving family member would likely want their relatives wishes to be carried out, even if this is death




It would be nice if this were true, but the majority of family members and friends who experience a suicide would NOT want their loved one killing themselves.

Quote:

anyone420 said:
Where do you get the authority to control others' body's?




When their actions impinge on my own happiness.  I don't want drunk drivers on the road, so I support making that illegal.  I don't want to be sexually harassed in my workplace, so I support making that illegal. I don't want my friends or family members unexpectedly dying and leaving me with years of emotional trauma and wondering why they didn't just tell me that they were suffering so we could talk through it, so I likewise support making that illegal.

Libertarianism is a fine policy, but unless you're advocating utter anarchy one can only condone freedom of action so far in that that action does not negatively affect others.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlineanyone420
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9388485 - 12/07/08 09:48 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I've never driven drunk, yet your law effects me greatly.  Your actions infringe on my happiness, and i have not harmed you. 

Besides, infringing on your happiness is such a weak excuse.  Someones lawn being unmowed could make you unhappy, and by your logic, you could send a fucking swat team in to make them mow it. 

Any possibly thing that could conceivably make you unhappy is fair game to you violently telling others what to do. 

Your too scared to face the reality of death, so you make it illegal for everyone else to make their own decision. 

Your justifying a law that enslaves millions because you want to control your own families decisions. 



You contradicted yourself again by claiming to agree with libertarianism, yet condoning a creation of a law that forces others, which is the most blatant violation of the libertarian philosophy there is. 

force = bad
government can only = force.  they have nothing else. 


Here's an idea for you, make your own decisions within your family, and stop treading on everyone else.


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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InvisibledeCypher
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Posts: 56,232
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9388503 - 12/07/08 09:51 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

anyone420 said:
Any possibly thing that could conceivably make you unhappy is fair game to you violently telling others what to do.




Pretty much.  Have you considered that anarchy invariably devolves back into government?  People get more things done when they band together and pass laws ensuring their own safety.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleSleepyF0x
I bleed nicotine...
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Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 4,140
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9389831 - 12/08/08 01:36 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i advocate putting people in jail for committing thought-crimes.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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OfflineBrandon2874
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Registered: 02/27/07
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #9390047 - 12/08/08 03:11 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I watched someone I was close with die of brain cancer, when they died they  were nothing like there former self. They had went from a sweet caring person that was a spot of goodness in the world to an aggressive, selfish, mentally diminished shell of a human being. As a result they died alone in a nursing home with little dignity.

I have also known a teenager who suffered through cancer fighting and rallying though pain and suffering with the support of an entire community. She went into remission, but her cancer returned. When she died she told one of her parents that it hurt alot and she was tired of fighting. Shortly thereafter she went to sleep and didn't wake up. Was losing her will to fight a form of suicide?

For the Terminally ill life can be full of pain and many face it bravely day in and day out. They fight not only their fear of death, but also they carry the worries of how their friends and family will carry on after they are gone. To call assisted suicide selfish and wrong is to belittle the efforts of those who struggle so hard to survive.

Imagine being someone with Lou Gehrig's disease fighting and struggling hard for years, but knowing that you will eventually drown in your own spit, if you fought hard for years wouldn't you prefer to drift off to sleep and not wake up before that happened.

Imagine you had a diseases (like my friends)that would destroy your mental capacity and personality. Before the disease progressed too far wouldn't you prefer to gather your friends and family together, give people a few words of love, inspiration, and hope, and depart the world  peacefully with your mind still intact.

The living are sometime selfish by urging the dying to suffer on so they can delay the grief of their loved one's death.

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Offlineanyone420
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: deCypher]
    #9390389 - 12/08/08 06:36 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

anyone420 said:
Any possibly thing that could conceivably make you unhappy is fair game to you violently telling others what to do.




Pretty much.  Have you considered that anarchy invariably devolves back into government?  People get more things done when they band together and pass laws ensuring their own safety.




So you casually admit to using the the tool of government - violence - to get whatever you deem necessary, no matter how it infringes upon another live, yet you claim to be a libertarian.  You admit to using the government to forcefully influence the dying wishes of your own family, yet you claim to be acting on the benefit of the entire human race.


Its a complete lie to say people get more done when the government comes together and supervises it.  Utterly and completely false.  The free market always get things done better and faster, because it is incentivzed.  The government is not. The government exists because of people like you who wish to tell others how to live their lives, not because people want safety.  The BIGGEST threat to an individuals safety and well being on a daily basis is POLICE.  And in a voluntary society, everyone understands that rights are not granted by some asshole in a robe, or a silly peice of paper.  Everyone has the same natural rights no matter what color your skin is, what plot of land you were born on, and how old you might be.  Any infringement on this simple policy of do not harm will garner you backlash. 

Any time the government gets involved in anything a few things happen right on its face, it takes longer, costs more, and creates a number of unintended consequences because the only tool they have is violence. 

When you make drugs illegal, you have created an unintended consequence.  You have created a black market for a substance, and effectively created a market for crime. 

If you make bearing arms illegal, the unintended consequence is that only the people who wish to use the weapons maliciously have them.  The people that would shoot for sport, protect their family, or otherwise have the weapon are left vulnerable so you can have an invisible safety net.

As far as a true state of anarchy becoming government again: show me evidence of this. 

The fact is, that in a voluntary society, all participating members acknowledge and embrace the concept of non aggression.  If you broke this principle, you would be socially outcast and ostracized.  If you committed violence, trust me, you will be harmed back. 

The government is the offspring of the weak, and that makes you one of them.  You selectively respond to my answers, while i rebut yours in totality, because you KNOW you can't argue with them.  You draw every situation into its utmost extremity, throwing shit to the wall to see if it sticks.  And worst of all, you find it no big deal to casually commit violence on others.  What goes around comes around man.


--------------------
for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #9390476 - 12/08/08 07:05 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it stars saddam said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
People who commit suicide are selfish, plain and simple.




Couldn't one argue that those who would rather he continue to suffer than endure the grief that would result from his death are equally, if not more selfish?

Another common sentiment that I take issue with is the idea that suicide is "a cowardly act."  I don't want to promote or glorify suicide, but, all things considered, it's actually pretty fucking brave.




So instead of taking the time to fix your life you end it? Thats brave? Thats called the easy way out of you ask me. Much easier in a fucked up state of mind to pull a trigger than it is to take the months or years of time to fix your life.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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InvisibleCeara
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Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 246
Loc: Great White North
Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: anyone420]
    #9390515 - 12/08/08 07:15 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The hypocrisy on this forum is amazing. 

We have "Christians" on here who don't hesitate to speak up about suicide and how they believe it's wrong.  But the same "Christians" sit idly by during conversations of potential violence against women, i.e. "dry smash her shitbox." (Personally I'm not offended by the mention of anal sex, but it's just not for me.  That area is designated "exit only.")

Howcome we don't have a Christian outcry during those conversations?  But noooooo, when it comes to suicide, albeit assisted, they start to freak out. 

Tell me, bible beaters, how would you feel seeing a loved one writhing in close-to-death pain in the hospital bed or hospice and that person reaches over to you with all the strength they can muster and whispers, "Kill me... please." 

What would you do then? 

Would your morals step up to the plate and make you say, "No sorry I can't do that, it's against my beliefs." 

Or would you feel compassion and want to help that person?  How would you feel seeing your loved one die in pain like that?  Would you feel guilty and wish you had done something to ease the suffering?  Or would you feel confident in your beliefs that suffering was the right thing to do?

I agree we shouldn't have a "Soylent Green" method of assisted suicide where just anyone can decide to end it.  But there should be legal methods of helping someone that's going to die anyway and has already begun the death process.  i.e.  organs shutting down and nothing can be done about it.

At the very least put the patient in a chemically-induced coma or something.  Hopefully everyone will make a Living Will in such cases.  Then the patient's intentions are clear.

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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: Brandon2874]
    #9391377 - 12/08/08 10:53 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brandon2874 said:
The living are sometime selfish by urging the dying to suffer on so they can delay the grief of their loved one's death.




spot on


--------------------
how's your WOW?





  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 

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Offlineanyone420
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Re: Assisted suicide in Montana legalized. [Re: wrestler_az]
    #9391387 - 12/08/08 10:55 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

i don't understand what is so difficult about that concept.

people are different

we are not all the same

stop trying to control everyone else

and live your own life


--------------------
for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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