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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: feifen]
    #9369786 -

a natural right is something you are born with, which is recognized in an anarchist government, or any form of government. by saying that in an anarchist government you are free to kill someone is false, anarchism is self-government, that doesn't mean there are not "laws", but are laws observed by all, hence the "self" in self government.

your argument is false, if you wish to keep perpetuating it i have no interest in participating, as it is cyclical and stagnant.

answer this question if you want to discuss further:

Quote:
if self governance is not anarchy, WHAT is?



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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9369844 -

I don't think there is any self-government, I don't believe that any real worlds describe it. It's just a simple sense of self and self needs. The act of doing something to please oneself. Selfishness. I associate these terms with Anarchy, but yes, in a twisted sense it is self governance. But, since you control yourself, that really is kind of irrelevant ( to me ), but rather simply the actions one does (which does relate to "governing self" Simple self control if you will. I can agree, "laws" like natural rights can be setup, but I was also trying to associate it with bad Anarchy examples such as ones in Africa, and near the Middle East, where literally there is no rules and it is kill or be killed and to steal, or whatever it takes to stay alive, much more primal, and more instinctive, yet sitll have to think and be careful. Hectic, to say the least. I guess I'm really bad at explaining things as I do not comply go against what your saying, and I know where your coming from and can relate to what you are saying, and maybe I'm really tired and reading things wrong.. and actually I'm going to bed, so I'll check up on this when I wake up tomorrow.

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: feifen]
    #9369900 -

Quote:
but I was also trying to associate it with bad Anarchy examples such as ones in Africa, and near the Middle East


again, those are not examples of real anarchist societies. you are using a false definition. yes there is no central government in those societies, but there are coercive forces, which are governmental in themselves.

anarchism is based on mutual cooperation, "treat your neighbor as you treat yourself" type deals.

what you describe is called disorder, not anarchism.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9370714 -

I think you have made up your own definituon for anarchy.
Anarchy in its simplest terms is chaos/disorder.

anarchy -

–noun

1. a state of society without government or law.
2. political and social disorder due to the absence of governmental control: The death of the king was followed by a year of anarchy. 
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.
4. confusion; chaos; disorder: Intellectual and moral anarchy followed his loss of faith. 

A society with out government is snarchy.

Even in a "free society" ther will have to be some form of government.

No way around that.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: niteowl]
    #9370888 -

fuck i could have swore i posted a really in depth response this morning, but its not here and i don't feel like rewriting it.

Anarchy is the purest form of freedom.

If two people exist without a government, is there chaos?  No.  Is there anarchy?  Yes.

You choose to give it a chaotic and negative connotation. 

Furthermore, it is a logical fallacy to think that government which dominates freedom can somehow grant it by taking it away.

Government at its very root is the illusion of security, and a mechanism for tyranny. 

i think your idea of freedom is completely out of wack.


Its the voluntary and consensual actions we take on a daily basis that protect society.  For when i act in my own self interest, i act in the self interest of the whole.  Government = force, and force = wrong.  You can't abandon the non aggression principle for expediency.  All you will gain is tyranny.


Besides, from a macroscopic viewpoint, the government does everything inefficiently and without incentive.  Its beyond me why one would choose this pile of crap over a voluntary society. 

Even if you somehow think that if george bush wasn't picking his ass at the white house every day terrorists would be walking through the streets blowing everyone up, anarchy is simply a much lesser evil, and in my eyes much less harmful than a state apparatus.


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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: niteowl]
    #9372208 -

holy fuck, i'm done arguing with you, your posts are definitely cyclical and stagnant.

Quote:
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.


i already said this was the functioning definition. parts bolded because apparently you can't read.

Quote:
Even in a "free society" ther will have to be some form of government.


i already addressed this too, it's called self government, see above definition.

:kingtard:


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: SleepyF0x]
    #9372895 -

KrishnaDreamer said:
3. a theory that regards the absence of all direct or coercive government as a political ideal and that proposes the cooperative and voluntary association of individuals and groups as the principal mode of organized society.


You forget that this 3rd definition is a THEORY
and theories rarely work in reality
especially in a social setting.

If there were no laws then there would be chaos, plain and simple

Humans are not noble creatures.

If, in your fantasy land, I have a stack of fire-wood in my back yard.
I would have to have some form of protection from the lazy person down the street,
to keep them from stealing my fire-wood.

An anarchist society would have much more violence than a society with some form of social government.

Quote:
i already addressed this too, it's called self government, see above definition.


And just who sets the standards for this "self government"
What may be acceptable behavior to you
may be unacceptable behavior to someone else.

Edited by niteowl (12/05/08 04:21 PM)

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: niteowl]
    #9373644 -

ur dum...

Quote:
You forget that this 3rd definition is a THEORY


this only refers to it as an idea, with your argument i can say that democracy is a theory as well. your argument is null and void.

Quote:
If there were no laws then there would be chaos, plain and simple


this is also a theory. also null and void.

edit: this is in fact not a theory, it is YOUR HYPOTHESIS.

Quote:
If, in your fantasy land, I have a stack of fire-wood in my back yard.
I would have to have some form of protection from the lazy person down the street,
to keep them from stealing my fire-wood.


there are these things called guns which deter people from stealing your stuff, ever heard of them? i'd rather rely on good neighbors to help protect me than the police.

Quote:
An anarchist society would have much more violence than a society with some form of social government.


then move to a socialist country you socialist! i'm sure you'll find many willing governments to dictate where you work, how you dress, what you eat, etc.

Quote:
And just who sets the standards for this "self government"
What may be acceptable behavior to you
may be unacceptable behavior to someone else.


you don't understand the definition of self government, anything is acceptable as long as it does not infringe on another's rights.


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Everybody's a ninja...

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Re: Holy crap- All these news articles coming out opposing drug on wars? [Re: Psycoma]
    #9374530 -

Yeahs two big problems... The War On Drugs and Drug On Wars... lol

That was too easy someone probably already posted it I didnt read all 3 pages. :smirk:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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