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Offlinewhatsthestorymg
badwithgrains

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 123
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form?
    #6368410 - 12/13/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I have been reading about basic dmt extractions for a couple of days now. Most of them are geared toward extraction from phalaris or acacia root bark. They're the typical acid/base solvent extraction.

I read somewhere that in mimosa hostilis the DMT is already in it's salt form and therefore soluble in water.

So, my question is, could i skip the acid part of the extraction which converts the alkaloids to salts, and just mix it in diluted NaOH to convert the alkaloids to their free base form then extract them with Naptha or Chloroform?

or, More simply put does anyone know if DMT is in it's salt form in Mimosa Hostilis root bark?

Is there a possibility that it could exist in the salt form and in it's standalone form in the root bark and that bypassing the acidification step would affect my yields?

thanks! :chemistry:  :hummer:  :fairy:  :farmerdance:  :farmerdance:


--------------------
I pity the fool who don't enjoy a good cubie :mushroom2: :mrt: :mushroom2:
I pity the fool who don't enjoy a good van eyck  :mrt:

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Cattle Prod of Loving Kindness


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OfflineOrbus
The Liberator
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/14/06
Posts: 85
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: whatsthestorymg]
    #6368538 - 12/13/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think to freebase you need salt. But anyway heres the best way to get freebase dmt out of mimosa.

How to easily make DMT:
=======================
Break 1-Pound of Mimosa Hostilis rootbark into 1" pieces using new heavy-duty
wirecutters, then grind it all up in a glass-topped blender, a little at a time.
------------------------------------

Polar Extraction: Premix in an empty 1-Gallon plastic jug: 1-Quart White Vinegar
& 3-Quarts Water. Put the ground up Mimosa in a 3-Liter crockpot, then fill it
with the water-vinegar solution. Stir well and turn it on "high". After 2 hours,
remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the lid on slightly offset, and pour off
most of the liquid into a 1-gallon wide-mouthed glass or stainless container.
Add the remaining water-vinegar solution to the crockpot again. Stir well and
turn it on "high". After 2 hours, remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the
lid on slightly offset, and pour off all of the liquid into the same container
again. Discard the rootbark fiber and save the two combined extractions in the
1-gallon container. Allow the vegetable particles in the extraction in the
1-gallon container to settle to the bottom overnight. Then pour off the liquid
into an empty 1-Gallon glass wine jug, being careful not to pour off any of the
vegetable sludge at the bottom. Discard the sludge and keep the contents of the
wine jug.
------------------------------------
Basification: Premix in advance a solution of: 5 heaping Tablespoons (70grams)
of Lye (Lowes Hardware, item# 146450 "Roebic Crystal Drain Opener") SLOWLY
added to 1-Pint of warm water. Stir well. Slowly add this solution to the jug,
then cap it. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 1 full minute to mix.
------------------------------------
Nonpolar Extraction: Add 250ml (150ml) of (Ace Hardware) VM&P Naptha to the wine jug. Then add exactly enough warm water to the jug to raise the liquid level to an inch below the top. Cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug slowly back and forth for 5 full minutes to mix the contents. Allow the jug to sit undisturbed on a table for at least 4 hours. There should now be two layers visible in the jug,
a lower dark one and a smaller clear one on top filling the neck of the jug.
Use a glass turkey baster to suck up the top clear layer into a pint mason jar.
Be careful NOT to suck up any of the lower brown foam/black liquid layer into
the mason jar.
-------------------------------------
Freeze-precipitation/wash: place the sealed mason jar in a FREEZER for 3 days
to precipitate the crystals. Prepare a filter setup by placing a funnel into
a quart mason jar and putting a small coffee filter paper into the funnel.
Shake the naptha in the mason jar strongly to stir up all the crystals at the
bottom and quickly pour while still very cold into the funnel for filtering.
Impure yellow-white DMT crystals will be seen on the coffee filter paper.
Allow the crystals to completely dry out on the filter paper in the funnel.
Chill a bottle of NON-SOAPY clear Ammonium Hydroxide(Ace Hardware Janitorial
Strength Ammonia) in a refrigerator. Slowly pour 35ml of the cold ammonia over
the crystals (still in the filter paper) to wash them. Remove the filter paper
from the funnel, spread it out flat and allow the crystals to COMPLETELY dry out.
You will now have 2-1/2 grams of white crystal DMT. Mix it with some dried
parsley and smoke a little in your favorite pipe!...Marsofold
=================================================
Optional Tips:
#1 Grind the rootbark up to 1mm diameter or smaller. Finer is better.
#2 Use three water-vinegar extractions rather than two. Divide up the
water-vinegar mix so that you roughly use 50% for the first extraction,25% for
the second, and 25% for the third extraction. After the last extraction press
out the fiber to squeeze the last bit of liquid from it.
#3 Basify to a ph of 13. Underbasification is the most common reason for a poor
yield. If you don't have ph papers, basify till it turns black, then add an
additional 25% of whatever amount of basification solution you used. This is to
guarantee that you're at a ph of 13. The brown foam you see floating on top of
the basified extract after tilting the jug should flatten out to a thickness of
no more than 1/2" after 45 minutes or so if you've used enough lye.
Add a bit more lye and re-tilt the jug to mix if it's thicker than that.
#4 Naptha: Dividing the naptha amount into two "pulls", then combining them into the same mason jar for freezing will raise the yield by 10%. The best way of extracting if you aren't sure of the yield is to use a slight excess to extract
and evaporate it down with a small fan to 1/3 of the original volume. THEN freeze it. This will pretty much guarantee excellent results. For example: For a pound of rootbark use 300 milliliters of naptha to extract. Evaporate it down to
100 milliliters. Then freeze it and filter out the crystals. You must very quickly filter it within a minute or two after removal from the freezer so that it doesn't have any time to warm up. And your freezer can't be marginally cold. If it doesn't freeze ice cream HARD, then it isn't cold enough.
#5 A small marble in the naptha rattled around in the mason jar will loosen up
the crystals for filtering. It won't hurt anything to pour it out with the crystals into the filter paper. A buchner funnel is the best kind for filtering.
#6 Washing: Be sure that the crystals are absolutely DRY before washing.
Weigh them and use 14ml of chilled ammonium hydroxide per gram of crystals.


--------------------

------------------------------------------------------
Really, the fundamental, ultimate mystery -- the only thing you need to know to understand the deepest metaphysical secrets -- is this: that for every outside there is an inside and for every inside there is an outside, and although they are different, they go together. - Alan Watts


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Offlinewhatsthestorymg
badwithgrains

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 123
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: Orbus]
    #6369678 - 12/14/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

To free base it, you need the free base from of the dimethenyltryptamine alkaloids. The free base is the standalone alkaloid. Same with cocaine. The cocaine you buy on the street is the salt form of the cocaine alkaloids or Cocaine HCL. The free base of cocaine is less stable and is thereby normally sold in the salt form.

When you extract alkaloids, you acidify the solution to convert the alkaloids to their salt form so! in turn they are soluble in your acidic water. You then defat, and bassify to return them to their free base form which can be extracted in an organic solvent such as.. dun dun duh!
NAPTHA!

You need the free base form of the dimethenlytryptamine alkaloids to be able to "free base" them.

But yeah.. i've decided not to skip the acid step in order to avoid possibly low yields with the semi pricey bark...

thanks


--------------------
I pity the fool who don't enjoy a good cubie :mushroom2: :mrt: :mushroom2:
I pity the fool who don't enjoy a good van eyck  :mrt:

My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Cattle Prod of Loving Kindness


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OfflineBaldoSquemo
Lurker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 114
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: whatsthestorymg]
    #9341342 - 11/30/08 11:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

What are your thoughts on leaving it in it's salt form for some Nasal enjoyment?


--------------------
-Baldo


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Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: whatsthestorymg]
    #9341429 - 12/01/08 12:09 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whatsthestorymg said:
So, my question is, could i skip the acid part of the extraction which converts the alkaloids to salts, and just mix it in diluted NaOH to convert the alkaloids to their free base form then extract them with Naptha or Chloroform?

or, More simply put does anyone know if DMT is in it's salt form in Mimosa Hostilis root bark?

Is there a possibility that it could exist in the salt form and in it's standalone form in the root bark and that bypassing the acidification step would affect my yields?

thanks! :chemistry:  :hummer:  :fairy:  :farmerdance:  :farmerdance:




Yeah you can. Actually the most popular method of extraction is the straight to base or "lazymans tek." It works fine and has good yields but most people prefer to recrystallize because the final product is a little dirtier then when a acid base extraction is used.


--------------------


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InvisibleEntropymancer
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: whatsthestorymg]
    #9341472 - 12/01/08 12:18 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whatsthestorymg said:
So, my question is, could i skip the acid part of the extraction which converts the alkaloids to salts, and just mix it in diluted NaOH to convert the alkaloids to their free base form then extract them with Naptha or Chloroform?




You can, though you'd probably have to use more water and simmer it for longer (and you'd want to do at least three aqueous pulls.  Even if DMT didn't occur as a salt, you could do this due to the pKa of DMT.

Quote:

More simply put does anyone know if DMT is in it's salt form in Mimosa Hostilis root bark?




Yep, presumably DMT tannate.

Quote:

Is there a possibility that it could exist in the salt form and in it's standalone form in the root bark and that bypassing the acidification step would affect my yields?




Nope, even if the bark did contain freebase (which I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't), that wouldn't be a problem due to the pKa of DMT.



All that said, why are you opposed to using an acid? This makes the process much more efficient. Sure vinegar will stink up your kitchen, but you can use citric acid (available in the bulk section of many grocery or health food stores for very cheap), which won't produce any odor at all. Just a little bit of citric acid (less than a tablespoon per liter) will lower the pH to 4-5 and make the extraction more efficient.


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Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: BaldoSquemo]
    #9341473 - 12/01/08 12:18 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BaldoSquemo said:
What are your thoughts on leaving it in it's salt form for some Nasal enjoyment?




I have heard of people trying that but instead of crystals it ended up a goo, so it couldn't be snorted. But you can snort freebase DMT and get good effects but the extreme burn makes it not worth it.

If you want to snort DMT you will be interested in making some DMT fumarate. Just disolve some DMT freebase in acetone, add fumaric acid then evaporate. DMT fumarate is a DMT salt that is stable and the crystals work good for snorting or oral consumption.


--------------------


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InvisibleEntropymancer
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Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 10,207
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: BaldoSquemo]
    #9341488 - 12/01/08 12:21 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BaldoSquemo said:
What are your thoughts on leaving it in it's salt form for some Nasal enjoyment?




There's no way to extract it as the naturally-ocurring salt. You'd need to extract the freebase into a nonpolar solvent and then salt it out.

The other issue is that only one salt of DMT is known to exist as a solid. This is DMT fumarate. For info on making DMT fumarate, see the FASA Method link in my sig.  DMT fumarate is still uncomfortable to snort, but it doesn't burn like a motherfucker quite as bad as freebase DMT. There's a thread or two over at the DMT Nexus discussing the dosage range and effects of insufflating the fumarate salt (you need to take at least 150 mg for light to moderate effects)


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OfflineSscorpion
deskiciado
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 14 years, 27 days
Re: Mimosa Hostilis... DMT in Salt Form? [Re: Entropymancer]
    #9342136 - 12/01/08 03:08 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

(you need to take at least 150 mg for light to moderate effects)




Or you need to take a MAOI, like a peganum harmala tea, 20-30 minutes before you snort. 30-40 mg are enough for a moderate dose when MAO is inhibited. And the experience lasts more than 2 hours.


--------------------
always waiting......


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