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playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments??
    #8746127 -

so, i really dont get this....
I always get my ass kicked playing cash games, always...

but playing tournaments, i can usually end up at the final table (out of 30 or so) usually in the top 4...

anyone have any insight into why this might be?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8746214 -

Play extremely tight in cash games, but feel free to limp from the button or cutoff with hands like J9s, QT, 65s-T9s, always limp in with a pocket pair, at higher limits you usually always raise a pocket pair preflop, but at the lower stakes it's more profitable to just limp or call a small raise preflop, and bust their heads in when you flop a set, which will only be about 1 in 8 flops BTW.

Pretty much you don't want to commit any substantial portion of your stack to any pot unless you're sure you've got the best of it. see a lot of flops, wait till you KNOW you've got the goods and then start worrying about how you're going to get all of your opponents chips into the pot. Never call an all in when you're unsure if you're ahead or not, and don't ever put chips into a pot unless you've got odds to call on a draw or think your opponenent is bluffing and that you can push him off the pot. Basically learn the values of your starting hands, when you've got AA or KK the idea is to get all of the chips into the pot preflop if possible because if you've got aces or kings you will win the hand on average about 80% of the time. Don't let yourself become overly committed, reevaluate the situation with every card that comes, and if you no longer can put yourself as a significant favorite to win the hand, fold, even if you've already put in 1/3 of your stack, if a scare card comes and your opponent leads out betting it up, fold. Generally don't put in 1/3 of your stack unless you're committed to the pot. Always always be askiing yourself this question - "AM I COMMITED?" meaning can you put yourself as the favorite? if so, you can call an all in, or you can push all of your chips in if you think your opponent will call.

Edited by ZackRadical (08/08/08 11:03 PM)

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746283 -

Remember, at low limits there will always be players who are willing to go put their entire stack into the pot with lesser hands, just be patient, wait until you know you have the best of it, and then do what you have to do to get all of your opponents chips into the pot.

Knowing your opponent always helps. Sometimes getting all of the chips in when you've got the stone cold nuts means leading out with a strong bet that looks like a bluff, not betting at all and letting your opponent do the betting, so you're check-calling all the way down to the river where you can check-raise all in and swipe his stack, because he has already committed so much of his chip stack to the pot he will be inclined to call the all in raise, and sometimes making an especially small bet can make you look like you're weak and that you are just trying to steal the pot, to which your opponent will probably raise, smooth calling the raise can make you look like you're chasing a draw.

Edited by ZackRadical (08/08/08 10:56 PM)

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746351 -

Do you understand pot odds and implied odds?

You can't possibly be a winning player in cash games if you don't.

I'll explain in detail if you would like.

Edited by ZackRadical (08/08/08 11:07 PM)

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746432 -

What stakes do you play BTW? If you want to become good at cash games, play the .01c/.02c at PokerStars. PStars has the worst players on the net. Start multitabling (if you don't already). Always buyin to a cash game for 100BB's. I'd recommend putting $50 on PStars and starting off putting $2 on each table at the .01c/.02c. work your way up to 4 tables if you can, seems to be just the right amount for a beginner. I multitabled 20 tables at the .01c/.02c at Pokerstars and was a +EV player. Four tables is a good number because you can size them down so you can still see everything that is going on on each table on your monitor, playing 20 tables you're just a going to be a robot automaton, just stick with 4. Always make sure you have at least 20 buyins (I prefer 30) of any game you buyin to, so putting $50 or $60 on Stars would give you 25/30 100BB $2 buyins at the .01c/.02c.

Edited by ZackRadical (08/08/08 11:23 PM)

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746533 -

BTW I'm not very good, but I can win at the lowest limits if I stay patient.

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746672 -

yeah, i dont play on line, i play in real casino's in and around chicago, or reno, or wherever i happen to be at the time.

usually i will play NL holdem with $1/$2 blinds. occasionally i will play limit holdem with the same blinds, i like to play 1/2 kill, but they dont have that around here....

pot odds, and implied odds... i think that i know what you are talking about.

basically the ratio of chips i have in the pot vs the odds of me catching the winning hand?


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8746776 -

You should start playing online. Playing live your just not seeing enough hands to really learn the game well. Most of these so called "pros" on television are terrible at poker and only have any recognition because they were lucky and won some WSOP tournament. Most of them couldn't even beat the .10c/.25c online.

If you really want to play hold'em stick with No-Limit Hold'em. It's definitely the most profitable. Just put $60 on PokerStars and play 4 tables, putting $2 on each table; this way you start with 30 $2 buyins. Work your way up to $150 and then jump to .02c/.05c until you have $300 and then jump to .05c/.10c and so on. It takes time and patience and you have to be willing to grind it out, you WILL have bad runs, their WILL be suckouts, but you must stay patient and stick with the game plan (stay at the same stakes unless you fall below 20 buyins, then drop down, don't buyin to ANY tournaments) and you should be fine.

Read some books, read Professional No-Limit Hold'em, and Harrington on Cash Games. Also, read, The Theory of Poker by David Sklansky.

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746815 -

You can calculate pot odds by multiplying the number of outs you have to make your flush or straight (if you think making this hand will put you in the lead) on the flop by 4 and on the turn by 2. If you have say 9 outs on the flop to make your flush you are at roughly 36% (its actually 35% I think) to hit on the river, therefore if you are playing $1/$2NL and there is $60 in the pot and your opponent bets $20 you must call, in fact you are cheating yourself out of money if you don't call since the odds of hitting your hand are 2 to 1 and the odds you have on your money are 4 to 1

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8746835 -

i saw a friends dad win a tournament the other day raked in bout 730$:eek:

it think im something of a cooler:smirk:


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http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: Konyap]
    #8746925 -

didn't read thread but same here.

for me its because donks will keep buying back in and going all in alot.

the best odds you can hope for in poker is like 80%-20%?  and i'm pretty happy with like 65-35 when i go all in.

so even with the best odds, if i go all in 5 times in a night i'll lose all my money against a big stacked donk pretty much every time.

in tourneys i don't play as aggressively till the end, i like a sure thing before i go all in, and in tourneys other people are less likely to call an all in or push without decent hands because the donks go out pretty quick.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8747024 -

truekimbo2 said:
didn't read thread but same here.

for me its because donks will keep buying back in and going all in alot.

the best odds you can hope for in poker is like 80%-20%?  and i'm pretty happy with like 65-35 when i go all in.

so even with the best odds, if i go all in 5 times in a night i'll lose all my money against a big stacked donk pretty much every time.

in tourneys i don't play as aggressively till the end, i like a sure thing before i go all in, and in tourneys other people are less likely to call an all in or push without decent hands because the donks go out pretty quick.


If you always get the chips in with the best hand, you will come out on top.

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Re: playing holdem, I suck at cash games, but kick ass at tournaments?? [Re: ZackRadical]
    #8747111 -

not really true in low limit cash games, maybe over a long span of time... but night to night, i go in 5 times i end up losing everything.

i'm just kind of bitching though, when i used to play 1/2 i would generally lose 100-200 in a night, but when i won i would win 300-600.

so i could have 3 losing nights in a row, a break even, and then one winning and i'd still come out even or up a couple hundred.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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