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Overcoming attachments
    #8374470 -

Overcoming attachments is effectively the re-programming of the brain to divert its energies elsewhere. From our culture we've learned to be attached to very insidious things, from a social ego to material wealth. We only believe we need these things because we have been conditioned to see it that way.

Everything is in the mind - everything is a psychic event. Therefore, using our minds, we can overcome the meaning of any psychic event and destroy the triggers for another. We can slowly "unlearn" our culture and become autonomic beings, who do what we will.

All of what we can say is 'evil' is a result of attachments, of misdirection of psychic energies. Therefore, in overcoming our attachments, especially to the increasingly dangerous social ego game, we can overcome the 'evil' within ourselves and return to our natural states.

We can effectively rebuild our world by removing our maniac attachments. Is this all that has gone wrong? Have we simply become attached and then let that way of thinking spiral out of control? Is this the only problem? Are we naturally in harmony with everything around us? Is there no problem but the human-generated problems of thought (attachments) which is the misuse of an evolutionary tool? Is this a phase of development that went so far that we invested interest in the slightest things?


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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: burgatory]
    #8374597 -

well,
people used to think the world was flat.
I wonder why?

maybe thinking in terms of attachments, evil and ego is a kind of flat worldedness.

even for people who spoke pali - the language of the buddha, I am sure most had no clue what he was talking about.

you have to know for yourself what are attachments.
you have to see for yourself that they are not evil or other than any associations.
you have to see that associations are what the mind makes, and that it is natural and that it can be tended like a garden, or let grow wild.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8374639 -

'...we can overcome the 'evil' within ourselves and return to our natural states.'

I fear that dominant beliefs teach that the natural human state is 'evil' therefore making humans trapped under this lid very wary of experiencing anything coming from that direction. Grrr... Especially when possibly its your own shadow that you are making progress towards. The right direction in my mind. In and through that shit is IT, imo.


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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: burgatory]
    #8375222 -

Quote:
Have we simply become attached and then let that way of thinking spiral out of control?



We didn't let it, it just happened. We're just doing all we know how to do. Biological evolution is always a lagging process. The environment changes, and the organism very slowly changes in response. No organism will never be perfectly adapted to its environment.

Human beings are especially unbalanced because we have incredible power to change our environments with technology. What we need to be good at has changed so rapidly. For most of us, feeding ourselves is easy now, we don't have to be adapted for at that anymore, nor do we have to want to fuck at every opportunity, nor do we have to be good at bludgeoning each other with crude implements. But we're still geared for up exactly those things, so we overeat, we have promiscuous sex, and sometimes we kill people.

Quote:
Is this the only problem?



Yes. No attachments, no problems.

Quote:
Are we naturally in harmony with everything around us?



No, our nature ("our" meaning 21st century human beings) is to create problems for ourselves.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: burgatory]
    #8375337 -

I think you're more or less on target here. IMO, the theory really is that simple. It's the practical work of recognizing and breaking the attachments for long stretches of time that is difficult. We really have to learn to be adventurers who can go down deep rabbit holes without succumbing to the pull of the familiar.

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: druglord]
    #8378576 -

Does the overcoming of attachments coincide with an expansion of consciousness, do you think?


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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: burgatory]
    #8379121 -

Definitely. Overcoming attachments leads to branching out--to the acceptance of more, the potential of doing and being more, and the understanding of more.

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Re: Overcoming attachments [Re: burgatory]
    #8379496 -

Yes. If we imagine consciousness as a line with 'SELF' at one end and 'OTHER' at the other end, attachments keep us somewhere in the middle, constantly moving away from ourselves. We can never entirely reach ourselves (or SELF) completely except in the cases of psychedelics and spiritual practice - or a massive use of will power. However, the longer and closer we stay to the SELF our organism adapts to interpret the new perspective, therefore expanding our consciousness. Attachments are like snags on a fishing line, always forcing us to abruptly crash, or attempt to rip away while still being connected, thus imprisoning us.


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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.

joseph campbell


For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

jesus

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sweet and sticky [Re: burgatory]
    #8380861 -

a child could look at a car and think that the key somehow is connected to the wheels.
or that the gas pedal is connected to the wheels instead of all the wires pipes and mechanical bits between(, all of which need to be functioning within tolerance for the car to work at all).

attatchment is like the cyllinders in the engine.
this is not about self and other as such (though you can drive down that cul de sac if you like), but your mental engine will run roughly if one or more of the cyllinders is defective, sticking, or not getting a good fuel mixture.

there is no such thing as mind without attachment.
ergo, buddha says, "life is suffering". he goes on to explain the involvement of attachment and people, without clarity, think that "attatchment is a bad layer of possibilities" - quicksand- to be avoided at all costs.

wrong.

attachment is neither evil nor good,
I thank the universe for it otherwhise I would not exist; attachment is how ideas are connected:
things that happenned together are attached (in memory)
things that are simmilar are attached (by likeness/motif)
-which is how memory works!

these 2 processes are attachment but they are like
internal combustion and lubrication in the mind of the engine.

sure things can become overrelated or locked down in habit or addiction, but the middle way is about living in the matrix with what is essential and natural, and attachment, honey, is nature.

sweet and sticky


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: sweet and sticky [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8381381 -

redgreenvines said:
there is no such thing as mind without attachment.



Word.

The human/animal mind is attachment, its most basic functions are that of attachments, food, water, sex, survival. You can move to a higher consciousness but this is through transcending the human mind, which has been referred to by sages as "no-mind" as you are disidentified with the belief "i am the mind".

That is the only way to be free of attachments, you can train your mind to function in a particular fashion, in a way free of negative thoughts etc...but it will still function with attachments. Mind is attachment, to be free of attachments you go beyond human mind to cosmic consciousness. This is what buddha's do, they observe mind & its functions they don't change it, a forced change is just a lie, a pure growth/awakening is not, simply obsererving you come to realise is is not YOUR mind, just the human mind. Then reality flowers as you are looking beyond life, not stuck in the rat race of it chasing the minds tail endlessly.

Mind training can be a great thing but it will always function with attachment, you can never train it to be free of attachment, you can move to a higher consciousness which is then not what we call mind. Mind is a functioning of consciousness when watered down & limited to a body in time & space.

:peace:


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Re: sweet and sticky [Re: Chronic7]
    #8381641 -

Chronic777 said:
redgreenvines said:
there is no such thing as mind without attachment.



Word.

The human/animal mind is attachment, its most basic functions are that of attachments, food, water, sex, survival. ...
:peace:


chronic


i wish this were easier
food and water and sex are not mental attachments
they are physical imperatives (sure mind and body are connected, and yes there are lots of associations about these imperatives....)

the attachments that the buddha wanted you to see are all in the very scaffolding of mind.
mind works by associations.
this links to that.
what is repeated is linked more strongly.
(ergo habits can form...without habit we cna achieve very little...)

these are the natural part to see continuously operating.
the middle way you need to seek allows for attachment, yet ballances spontaneity with excessive habit etc. it allows that things that are not rigidly associated may be experienced as well.

is this understandable?
it is a different perspective than the good and evil - oversimplified one.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: sweet and sticky [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8381736 -

Food & water are mental attachments to most as they only eat at certain times of the day, not because they are actually hungry but because its "time to eat", the mind is used to a certain pleasure at a certain time, this is a very observable fact when seen with awareness. They are bodily attachments & mind attachments. Im not saying they're bad im just saying what they are, attachments necessary for survival.

The way my guru teaches me is to allow everything to express, full acceptance, to be free of all ego's attachment, to be utterly ego-less, simply witnessing and enjoying life rather than making rigid attachments & concepts around false beliefs, he has shown me that living in emptiness & acting always spontaniously out of this emptiness is true liberation, not acting out of ego desires/attachments, he is a living Buddha and every word he speaks is absolute truth.

Where enlightenment is concerned its going beyond mind, beyond attachment, beyond ego, beyond life itself. Sure anyone can live a normal human life with ego & attachments its only natural, i feel its natural for some of us to go beyond & awaken to the truth of all life.

:peace:


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Re: sweet and sticky - we swim in it [Re: burgatory]
    #8381882 -

are you bringing out the big guns by invoking your guru?

yes be natural,
yes seek enlightenment.
walk away from "absolute truths" and entangled explanations of what is and is not attachment.
(guru can become teddy bear too)

anything that connects to anything has the property of attachment. (no big deal, but you need to see attachment for what it is, in order to get past it's elastic imperative)

consider the letter "e" - perhaps "e" more than "u" as it is more popular...


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: sweet and sticky - we swim in it [Re: redgreenvines]
    #8382573 -

"The way my guru teaches me is to allow everything to express, full acceptance, to be free of all ego's attachment, to be utterly ego-less, simply witnessing and enjoying life rather than making rigid attachments & concepts around false beliefs, he has shown me that living in emptiness & acting always spontaniously out of this emptiness is true liberation, not acting out of ego desires/attachments, he is a living Buddha and every word he speaks is absolute truth."

Holy shit man.:what:


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