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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious



Registered: 06/19/07
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Loc: Mountains of N. America
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Lucid dreaming
#7932430 - 01/25/08 10:06 PM (16 years, 25 days ago) |
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Anyone have any experience with this? Any pointers for actually pulling it off?
I've tried some of the classic methods. Try choosing a sign or symbol before you go to sleep that reminds you you are in a dream. Or set an alarm that wakes you periodically every 1-2 hours, and after a couple times a lucid dream is supposed to come easier. I've also tried meditating some before I go to sleep, to clear my mind for it. But I've never had any success.
Any cool stories?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Meditation definitely helps, but here are some steps to get you started:
1. Start recording your dreams in a dream journal - This is the most important. Writing your dreams down and attempting to write them down with attention to all the details in your dream will send a message to your subconscious that your dreams are important and you will begin to have more dreams, vivider dreams, and a much much better chance at lucid dreams.
2. As you are falling asleep, tell yourself out loud or think to yourself "I will remember my dreams tonight. I will be aware of my dreams. I will have a lucid dream" - Once again, this is sending a message to your subconscious which reinforces your will to become lucid.
3. Dream testing. During your day, every once in a while you should ask yourself "am I dreaming right now?" Then look at your hands and slowly and patiently look at your surrounding area, trying to bring as much awareness to the moment as possible. - This may seem silly to you because you "know" you aren't dreaming, but if you do this enough, you have a much better chance of asking yourself if you are dreaming when you're actually in a dream and something odd is happening. I don't know why this works, but it does.
The alarm thing works, but isn't necessary IMO. The most important thing is to keep a dream journal and each morning try and remember and write down more details.
Quote:
Any cool stories?
This one time I was on a spaceship and realized I was dreaming. I walked over to the door hatch and opened it and I was looking at the beautiful night sky over the ocean. The wind sucked me right out of the ship and I started drifting downwards towards the ocean. Then I used my will to start flying upwards into the sky, and I flew all the way to a little island. When I landed on the Island, there were two aliens there, like the typical big headed grey aliens you see in movies. I decided to dance with them and then it was my idea to take all our clothes off (although they didn't have clothes) and have a dip in the ocean. I remember how soothing the water felt and how nice the breeze was. After swimming for a bit, I slowly started to wake up 
...
Anyway, thanks for making this thread as it will also help me in trying to lucid dream tonight. I've just started getting back into it and I'm pretty excited to start having them again. Now I'm off to go meditate and fall asleep!
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious



Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 24 days
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Eternal thanks for your reply! I'll have to give your advice a try and see if I get any results.
So how much control do you have over your dreams? Are you able to manipulate the dream itself, or just control what you are doing in the dream? For example, if you were dreaming you were on the moon, could you teleport yourself to a forest back on Earth? Or could you make things appear and disappear?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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boxcarguy07
Uno



Registered: 04/25/07
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I find that it happens to me much more often if I fall asleep during the day or with a light on. Don't know why, but I'm sure there's some explanation like neurotransmitters and whatnot.
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Music doesn't stop at the ears when it begins at the heart.
"Sit in reverie and watch the changing color of the waves that break upon the idle seashore of the mind." -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
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Cakes
some guy



Registered: 08/26/05
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I think it is more common during naps/day/etc because the distractions around you keep you from going very deeply into sleep. This means you are a little more conscious at some level. Leaving a tv/radio on will do the same thing to me.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Your welcome!
There are two kinds of control with lucid dreaming IMO. The first kind is controlling how long you are able to stay in the dream after you become aware - the first few times you will probably wake up right after you realize it's a dream because you will be so excited you'll wake yourself up in the real world. This kind of control comes with practice/experience. The longest I've been able to stay in a lucid dream is probably about 10 minutes real time although I've heard of people staying in a lucid dream for upwards to an hour.
In a lucid dream you still have a mental body, with arms and legs and what not. As far as I can tell, you can't will yourself to change into different objects or things like that. Basically it comes down to being able to navigate the dream world which is actually as rich in detail and complexity as the real world, and sometimes can be even more beautiful.
You also can't control other beings in a dream.. they seem to have their own consciousness.
Quote:
if you were dreaming you were on the moon, could you teleport yourself to a forest back on Earth?
You can't teleport, but you can fly which is IMO even more awesome because you actually experience the sensation of flying! Or you can jump really really far and high, which is kind of different than flying.
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Or could you make things appear and disappear?
Sort of. Let's say a snake is attacking you, you could have the intention of getting away from the snake and it would be a lot easier than in real life because there are less time restraints and physical limitations.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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By the way, there is a type of lucid dreaming which I would call transcendental dreaming, where you fall asleep in a dream, and you wake up into an even more vivid dream, and you'll meet someone from real life - not just a dream character, but it is that person that you know in real life, it's their very essence
i don't know how this is possible, it's very strange
they will tell you that they created the dream for you and them to meet in to prove the impossible and then you will laugh knowing you've somehow transcended ordinary reality and you'll be overcome with bliss as you realize what is really possible (everything)
not to be confused with astral projection
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Polyrhythmanaut
BaphometicServitude


Registered: 01/27/07
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Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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I'm gonna throw this out there since it seems to work for me and a few others here at the shroomery.
Ive been trying various techniques, some mentioned already, and had quite a few successful attempts. Though i usually get them randomly, once or twice a month. Hardly ever do i achieve one intentionally. Still very new to this. However, anytime i take amanita muscaria, no exceptions, I WILL have a lucid dream. Usually ill make the switch from waking consciousness to dream consciousness with little or no awareness of the transition. The amanita induced lucid dreams are always more vivid and impressive than my spontaneous lucid dreams in which ill just barely realize that I'm dreaming only to quickly lose control and awaken.  In the "amanita dreams" Ill often find myself in a bizarre, yet familiar landscape inhabited with friends and/or strangers, and generally I'm immediately aware that I'm dreaming and that Ive taken amanita. Then the fun, or the fright, begins. The best results Ive had are with small doses( 10-12gs dried caps) right before bed. My last try was so freaking crazy that i literally woke up exhausted from the experience. It was a shitty night of sleep, but an amazing night of....something...dont know what to think about it really. Here is some of it in words. I remember finding myself in a mountain village somewhere in what looks like the far east.( I had watched crouching tiger hidden dragon the night before and i have a thing for Asian chicks...Beautiful;) ) And the girl from that movie who falls in love with the bad boy from the desert is there with me. We eventually walk to a waterfall and sit on huge turtle shells to eat some fruit. I was perplexed as to how i could be there with her when i knew that i belonged in my house, in my bed, with my toes freezing from the fan( last thought from my waking life) She was holding some fruit that resembled the amanita muscaria mushroom and handed me one saying something like " these are reasonable hosts", and "don't forget you let them in" Then i dont recall what happened after that, just little snapshots of scenes that feel very real to me now.
Later I recall the end of the dream becoming a bit unsettling. I was fighting someone or something with a samurai sword. The swords we were holding were like jello and flopped in the wind as we swung at each other, over and over again.ha ha. Thankfully we gave up trying to kill each other and i hugged the beast or whatever it was.
It was the most lucid dream that ive ever even imagined having. The fear i felt when fighting the "thing" was unreal, and so to was the joy of resolving the matter with affection. After that i was back with the beautiful asian woman and we again sat on the turtle shells. Then i slowly became aware that the love i was feeling from her was fading. I was slowly waking up. This was dreadful to me and i begged myself to remain there. Even when i knew that i had lost the dream and i was awake, i laid there with my eyes closed for a long time hoping to resume where i left off. I wrote it all down upon waking and thought about it all day at work. There really is something to these amanita muscaria mushrooms. I would probably never take them again with the intention of fighting through the sleepy stage to stay awake( though thats very nice too!) Has anyone else had these kind of experiences during the sleep induced byy the amanita?
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fazdazzle
Wanderer


Registered: 02/17/05
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Some solid advice here.
Start a dream journal immediately!
If you are really interested, I will automatically point you to "Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming," written by Stephen LaBerge, who did his doctoral studies in lucid dreaming: http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-World-Dreaming-Stephen-Laberge/dp/034537410X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201332453&sr=1-1
This is just a phenomenal book; he covers EVERYTHING you'd want to know about lucid dreaming.
I usually have most of my lucid dreams & APs when I take naps. Sometimes I have a querky morning where my consciousness is just ready and I will just find myself awake in the dream world, or many times in a sort of "void" which is between dreaming and waking consciousness.
The most interesting experience I've had was using a technique where you count yourself to sleep, reminding yourself with every increment that you are dreaming: "1, I'm dreaming; 2, I'm dreaming; 3, I'm dreaming, etc." This is just one of MANY lucid dream exercises in LaBerge's book. I decided to try it after waking up, having read about it the night before. I started counting and got to about 18 where I felt my consciousness slipping into the dream world (through the "void") but my thoughts were so chaotic that I couldn't keep my numbers right so I just started saying random numbers, knowing it didn't really matter.
"18, I'm dreaming; 23, I'm dreaming; 31, I'm dreaming," after which about three or four of these I suddenly found myself in a forest with a snow covered ground and HUGE trees. I was so excited I just said "Yes!!" and instantly flew up superman style, toward the tops of the trees. I flew around these trees for awhile but I was having a tough time staying a flight, which I think is a cause of my rational brain "knowing" I can't fly (this is common with more lucid dreams from what I've read (there *are* degrees of lucidity, fyi)).
I found a purple swirling portal at the top of one of the trees, but decided to stayed out to maintain my lucidity (agh regret that one!!). For the rest of the time I flew around watching animals run around and going up and down the mountain range to the "east" side of the landscape (not sure how I formed cardinal directions there...) My lucidity eventually dwindled and I woke up after finding myself at the feet of two people (there was an very interesting building carved into the mountainside).
To me lucid dreams are more like an interesting alternate reality, with pretty solid characteristics. Dreams can feel very chaotic also, not sure why though.
Astral projection is just something else. I feel like I'm in a very real aspect of reality when I'm in the astral. I had a really crazy "real time" projection a couple years ago, where I believe I saw "all time" of that particular room.
I floated out from my body overtop of a toddler on the floor wearing a pink onesie (I had a pretty small room, fit for a youngster). I landed on the floor and stumbled into the closet, seeing a mirror on the opposite side; my astral gear were blue jeans and a red polo (pimpin!). I walked out of my closet and tried to put my hand through the door...bank - nope! I couldn't do it, oh well I'll just look at what I've got here, so I turn around and Yikes! There is like a bajillion things in my room, all over the walls and floor (it seemed to be layered in a sort of way, but all there nonetheless). I stared in absolute wonder taking in all the crap in there (sports memorabilia, posters, paintings, etc.
I also have a prime recommendation for AP; it's called "Astral Dynamics," by Robert Bruce: http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Dynamics-Out-Body-Experiences/dp/B000HWY5MU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201333748&sr=1-1 Otherwise Robert Monroe's stuff is very good.
Sorry if this is too long, I love this stuff!!!
Good luck brosef
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bumble
homunculus


Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 160
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Re: Lucid dreaming [Re: fazdazzle]
#7933724 - 01/26/08 04:37 AM (16 years, 25 days ago) |
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-------------------- progressive trance: Brian Rogers
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Divinatory
Rubber Tramp



Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 690
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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all of this is wonderful advice and will help with lucidity.
if you need a little help to start out with, I highly suggest trying out mugwort, it will bring out the vividness of dreams, gives you more control and much better recall.
also, something i've been trying lately with amazing results... right before bed, do a quid of only a gram to 1.5g of plain salvia leaf for 30 minutes while meditating. it will help bring focus in meditation, so while meditating focus your energy in dream recall so you have a steady mindset to go to sleep with. with this, I'll have about 5 or 6 dreams per night and I can recall every last detail of every dream when I wake up, I can even recall them throughout the day and even days later if the dream was significant enough
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious



Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 24 days
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Once again, thanks for all the advice. I actually ended up having a touch of insomnia last night and hardly got any rest, lol. But i'm going to keep trying. I'm not really looking to use any drugs to induce dreams, I'd like to figure out how to do it naturally if I can. I'm the kind of person who even has trouble remembering their dreams from night to night. So first I think I am going to to take Eternal's advice, and focus on clearing my mind before I sleep so I can have more potent dreams, try my best to remember them, and begin recording them in a journal. Hopefully after some time and patience i'll build up some "dream muscle memory" which will aid me in becoming lucid.
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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luckycharnes
I'm a SativaCyborg



Registered: 12/21/07
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I've been at it for years now, and would like to think I've got it down. When I was first trying it out, I was given this advice: When you think or know, or suppose that you might be dreaming, immediately try to focus on something concrete. Your hands are a good idea. By trying to focus on your hands, you get a grip on something substantial in your wishy-washy, ever-changing dream world. Like others here have said, the biggest challenge is to stay within your dream once you realize you are dream, thus taking control of whats going on. Deep meditation when you are awake is a good way to differentiate the difference between "reality" and what your organic body is truly capable of achieving (physically), and the dream world, or the transcendence on reality, being able to fly, float, etc. With this skill you can go ultimately anywhere. At this point I feel I'm living two lives, or one life with two alternate perceptions. It has become so real that sometimes I confuse memories with dreams and vice versa. However, depending on your stance, there may be no difference.
Nowadays, when I have a dream that's not lucid, I feel duped. 
But, with practice, you'll get it.
My advice, is if you decide to keep a dream journal, it's great to record, but not necessary to read back all your entries. There is a difference between your subconscious and lucidity. I believe, at least, that lucid dreaming is transcending reality, perception, and allowing yourself to "fly" or ride on your innate energies that are rarely used. Dreaming of "real" things or dreaming about what's subconsciously on your mind is more common, and not possible to really control. Learn to separate the two, and happy dreaming!!!
-------------------- "something funny" "something profound"
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Divinatory
Rubber Tramp



Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 690
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Quote:
luckycharnes said: Deep meditation when you are awake is a good way to differentiate the difference between "reality" and what your organic body is truly capable of achieving (physically), and the dream world, or the transcendence on reality, being able to fly, float, etc. With this skill you can go ultimately anywhere. At this point I feel I'm living two lives, or one life with two alternate perceptions.
I feel the same. with much practice in meditation and lucid dreaming I now live two separate lives, but at times the two are combined, meaning when awake and fully consciouss I can, at will, alter my perception and break down the natural filters in the brain and perceive a dream-like world within the actual reality world. for me, it makes life so much more beautiful and worth living, I notice things I've never noticed before, and I can feel completely innerconnected with everything I perceive, whether it be reality or not.
a dream journal is a MUST. keep a pen and paper at reach and right when you wake immediately start writing. it doesn't have to make sense at all, just the concept of jotting down your dream will help extensively with dream recall in no time at all.
my advice: the way I learned... start with a dream journal. don't worry, YET, about lucidity and trying to take control, it will come with practice. at first, you need to build up your recall. do the dream journal for a couple weeks, you'll begin to notice it becomes easier and easier to write in more detail. when you feel comfortable recalling, and you can remember the dream throughout the day, move on to everyone else advice about focusing on lucidity and control, and recognizing 'reality' objects in your dream, like the example of looking at your hand and such. meditation before bed will help greatly and will make the transition from awake to sleep much smoother and recognizable.
also, with transition.. while you lay down to sleep, relax your body completely. think only about dream recall, control, and lucidity. you'll begin to notice your thoughts will start to stray, and you'll get weird sensations such as sinking, or floating, or weird sounds or voices, this is your SIGNAL that you're transitioning into the dream world, this is where the practice comes in.. learn to stay focused on this transition, let it take you where it wants, but be aware that you are falling into the dream world. with time, you can make a complete transition from awake to sleep while being fully aware of doing so, which means you can alter your dreams at will.
good luck my friend. patience and practice, don't give up, with time it WILL happen.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious



Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 24 days
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Great stuff. On the topic of meditation, any good techniques? I usually just focus on clearing my head, on creating a void if you will. I try to think of only my breathing and the energy inside my body. Its difficult for me to transition from this meditation straight to sleep however. It usually ends in me trying to force myself to sleep and then I end up sort of losing focus. Should that be something I should work on as well?
-------------------- Word to your mom.
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Divinatory
Rubber Tramp



Registered: 05/15/07
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CureCat
Strangest


Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Nearly all of my dreaming is lucid. I started playing with the concept before I knew what lucid dreaming was.
When I was younger, I hated nightmares, so I taught myself to realize when I was stuck in a bad dream and I would wake myself up. I also realized at a very young age, that I LOVE FLYING in my dreams!
Now that I am a bit older, I have learned to Fly whenever I wish, and am able to conjure objects at will.
For some reason, I tend to enjoy getting into trouble and being chased in my dreams. So most of my dreams include running and flying (actually, more like levitating) away from people, hiding, and conjuring objects which might aid in my escape. 
I never meditate.
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