Home | Community | Message Board

Mycohaus
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK]
    #7825569 - 01/02/08 09:43 PM (16 years, 30 days ago)

The Big Question: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status?
January 3, 2008 - independent.co.uk

Why are we asking this now?

Because the outspoken chief constable of North Wales, Richard Brunstrom, has reignited the debate over the legalisation of drugs by saying that Ecstasy, used mainly in clubs and at raves, is "far safer than aspirin". He also said that the legalisation of all drugs was inevitable and only a decade away. His comments drew criticism from MPs, anti-drugs pressure groups and relatives of people whose deaths have been related to the use of Ecstasy. Some have called on him to resign.

Others involved in the drugs debate found his comments frustrating. Martin Barnes, chief executive of the independent drug information and expertise centre DrugScope, said: "On an issue as complex and emotive as drug policy, it's a shame that unhelpful soundbites from people in authority cause a publicity storm, rather than opening up a calm, informed debate."

What exactly did he say about Ecstasy?

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said: "There's a lot of scaremongering and rumour-mongering around Ecstasy in particular. It isn't borne out by the evidence."

He added: "Ecstasy is a remarkably safe substance – it's far safer than aspirin. If you look at the Government's own research into deaths you'll find that Ecstasy, by comparison to many other substances – legal and illegal – it is comparably a safe substance."

It is not the first time Mr Brunstrom has hit the headlines, as he is a long-time campaigner for the legalisation of drugs. He said that the evidence was "very clear" that prohibition was not and could not work, adding that "an enforcement-led strategy is making things worse, not better".

Who else supports legalisation?

Mr Brunstrom admitted that he was "certainly out of step" with most other senior police officers, but said that there were others among the upper ranks of the police service who agreed with his support for an end to prohibition. There are also senior politicians in all three major political parties who are privately sympathetic to the legalisation of drugs, but the issue is too sensitive with the electorate for them to call for any change in the drugs laws publicly.

The lobby group Transform is in support of the legalisation of Ecstasy, along with all other drugs. It says it would save the country billions of pounds on drug-related crime, make drugs safer through proper regulation, and stop money from being diverted into the hands of criminal gangs.

What is Ecstasy?

Ecstasy is usually taken in the form of a pill, but is increasingly taken in other forms such as a powder or crystals. It gives users a "rush" of energy, which is why it is mainly used by clubbers. It also makes sounds and colours more intense, and often produces intense feelings of love and friendship between those who take it. Its active ingredient is Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), although the amount of MDMA in each pill varies greatly. Users describe it as being like a combination of taking amphetamines and a weak kind of hallucinogen, such as LSD.

So is Ecstasy really dangerous?

The exact number of deaths brought about by Ecstasy use is hard to pin down, as it depends how the figure is measured. According to the National Programme on Substance Abuse Deaths, compiled from looking at coroners' reports from around the UK, there were 42 deaths related to Ecstasy-type drugs in 2006. Most of those involved the taking of Ecstasy in combination with other drugs, though. Only 16 deaths came after the use of an Ecstasy-type drug alone. And even within that figure, very few deaths have ever been caused by direct poisoning from the drug. Most come from other related effects, most commonly overheating and dehydrating in a hot club. Some cases – such as the high-profile death of Leah Betts in 1995 – involved consuming fatal quantities of fluid after taking Ecstasy. Supporters of legalisation argue that such deaths could be avoided with health warnings that would accompany proper regulation.

Though attention has been focused on Ecstasy-related deaths, it may also cause non-fatal damage to the brain, though the evidence is so far inconclusive. The drug's effect on the heart means that anyone with a heart condition, blood-pressure problems, epilepsy or asthma can have dangerous reactions to it. And it does create some unpleasant but less serious symptoms, such as nausea, a dry mouth and sweating.

How many people use it?

Ecstasy is mainly used by clubbers to keep them dancing all night. Its use was strongest at the height of the rave culture in the early 1990s, but has since fallen. The most up-to-date government figures, compiled in 2004, found that 4.8 per cent of 10 to 25-year-olds surveyed had taken Ecstasy, while the figure for people between 18 and 25 was nine per cent.

What does the law say about Ecstasy?

Ecstasy is currently ranked as a Class A drug, along with the likes of cocaine and heroin. It is therefore illegal to have, give away or sell. Possession of Ecstasy carries a maximum prison sentence of seven years. Supplying the drug can result in an unlimited fine and even life imprisonment.

Is legalisation really on the cards?

One group that thinks so is Transform. Its director, Danny Kushlick, said: "The reason that people call Ecstasy "pills" is because we have no idea what goes into them. If prohibition was brought to an end, we could see the introduction of proper ingredients lists, health warnings and quality control." He added: "Legalisation could be 10 years away. But what we need first is for the supporters of such a policy to speak out. They are just not prepared to do that at the moment."

In reality, though, there is very little political will for a total legalisation of drugs. Since coming to power, Gordon Brown has hinted at strengthening current drug laws, rather than repealing them. Perhaps more likely is the reclassification of Ecstasy under the Misuse of Drugs Act. The Government's commitment to "evidence-based" drug laws suggests that the laws should be updated periodically. Back in 2003, a group of MPs dabbled with the idea of downgrading Ecstasy from a Class A drug to a Class B drug, alongside other amphetamines such as speed. But the idea was dismissed by ministers.

The possibility of a reclassification of Ecstasy has re-emerged recently. The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the government on drug policy, will review the evidence regarding the effects of Ecstasy, and will then make a recommendation over the classification of the drug some time this year.

Should ecstasy be legalised by the Government?

Yes...

* In reality, very few deaths are caused by ecstasy, and legalising it would allow proper quality control

* Money would stop being channelled to the criminal gangs which are involved in supplying drugs across Britain

* The policy of enforcement and criminalising users has shown little sign of working

No...

* Ecstasy could be responsible for causing brain damage. If we don't know all the facts, we should err on the side of caution

* People do die each year after taking ecstasy, though the degree to which the drug is directly responsible is disputed

* There is very little demand for the legalisation of ecstasy among the public or politicians. Reclassification is more realistic


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCowgold
Bullshit

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: veggie]
    #7826142 - 01/03/08 12:58 AM (16 years, 30 days ago)

Great article.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefantastical
Strangler!
Registered: 11/18/07
Posts: 89
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: Cowgold]
    #7826935 - 01/03/08 10:18 AM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Good article...Brunstorm is the fucking man!
What about all the alcohol related deaths...and alcohol related brain damage, and the toxicity of ethanol?
3 articles in 2 days is a great sign, all this publicity may at least reclassify this substance.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDagnus
Bag of Flesh
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 50
Loc: Pittsburgh
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: fantastical]
    #7828047 - 01/03/08 03:42 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Does anyone actually have any idea for sure whether ecstasy really causes brain damage or not?


--------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter
-Dr. Seuss


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNineStorms
The Dragon
Male


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Existing between Heaven a...
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: Dagnus]
    #7828128 - 01/03/08 04:00 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

Nope. Studies are inconclusive right now, but it's pretty obvious that E does deplete serotonin levels. Some studies say that whatever damage is caused isn't permanent, and will go away with 5-6 months or so of no use. I'd say that if you abuse the fuck out of them, you'll definitely get brain damage, just like any other drug, pharmaceutical or psychoactive. Respect the drug and respect yourself, and you'll be fine.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCowgold
Bullshit

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 12,486
Loc: .
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: NineStorms]
    #7828333 - 01/03/08 04:54 PM (16 years, 29 days ago)

:nono:  Actually, I did hear of one study that proved MDMA caused brain damage.  They found that after sprinkling a less than a standard dose on a baseball bat, the possibility of long term damage was greatly increased.  Results from low doses were consistent with those of higher doses. I remember one doctor was quoted as  saying, "Regardless of how little MDMA was used, braindamage was a certainty." 

It was a pretty interesting article.  I'll see if I can find it somewhere. 


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: Cowgold]
    #7831628 - 01/04/08 11:23 AM (16 years, 28 days ago)

A single dose of 120mg in a clinical setting shows no measurable brain damage. There have been several research studies in recent years that have established this.

The only people who have shown documented brain damage were long term heavy users. I think one study the average number of times used was 200 and the dose was 200-1000mgs. Suprise, suprise.

Responsible people aren't at huge risk if they know what they are getting.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefastfred
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7833731 - 01/04/08 09:43 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
The only people who have shown documented brain damage were long term heavy users. I think one study the average number of times used was 200 and the dose was 200-1000mgs. Suprise, suprise.




Those studies haven't shown any "brain damage". They have shown reduced numbers of 5-HT receptors and slightly different PET scans amongst long-term, heavy polydrug users.

Anti-drug zealots would love to make you think that is brain damage, but in fact it is not.

There is a study that has found slight cognitive decline amongst the heaviest long-term polydrug users. But a very slight cognitive decline amongst the heaviest of abusers hardly equals "brain damage".


-FF


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: fastfred]
    #7833920 - 01/04/08 10:40 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

Well, to be specific they found large scale axon loss, which means the brain cells were unharmed but the little arms connecting them had degenerated. This was correlated with some verbal memory impairment and it appeared to be long lasting.

You could call that brain damage, but I think anything in amounts like that could probobly harm something.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefastfred
Old Hand
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
Re: How dangerous is Ecstasy, and is there a case to review its legal status? [UK] [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7834142 - 01/04/08 11:56 PM (16 years, 28 days ago)

> Well, to be specific they found large scale axon loss,

Most people don't bother citing the near-lethal dose primate studies anymore, as they were obviously flawed.

The small cognitive declines they've shown can't be pinned on MDMA alone, and who really cares if it takes somebody an extra 2 minutes to solve the crossword puzzle. That's hardly brain damage. Otherwise TV, overeating, lack of sleep, etc. cause "brain damage" too.


-FF


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Research on Ecstasy Is Clouded by Errors cybrbeast 2,331 3 12/16/03 04:36 AM
by zeta
* Uk to review classification of all drugs MetaShroom 3,167 12 02/04/04 02:15 PM
by DailyPot
* Girl, 3, swallows ecstasy motamanM 1,843 3 07/17/03 07:39 AM
by shianggu
* 'Liquid ecstasy' used in rape to be banned motamanM 1,523 1 07/01/03 01:58 PM
by debianlinux
* Second ecstasy paper retracted MetaShroom 1,389 2 09/23/03 05:51 PM
by chodamunky
* Agony & Ecstasy motamanM 2,038 1 08/29/03 10:52 PM
by Fungushungry
* Call for legal ecstasy Annom 3,314 10 03/10/04 05:35 PM
by DailyPot
* Ecstasy has dramatic effect on Parkinson's symptom Eightball 4,102 5 01/24/03 01:42 PM
by TeKn0

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
2,719 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 12 queries.