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 Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
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 Post deleted by Anno 
#745032 - 07/14/02 07:56 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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BuzzDoctor
Runs withscissors
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 948
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: ]
#745512 - 07/14/02 01:16 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I liked the book. His writing style is definitely different, not the easiest to read. I had to really pay attention and a couple times had to go back a page or two. Lots of flashbacks, double, maybe TRIPLE flashbacks, for example when Frenesi's past is explained, then her mom then her grandma. I like how television (the Tube) is portrayed as a type of drug. Paranoia reigns thruout, I understand Pynchons other books are similar in that aspect.
Buzz
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Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.
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 Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: ]
#745940 - 07/14/02 04:40 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought the book was okay.
The style was definately not easy. My biggest criticism is that he would flashback like either right in the middle or immediately after a major thought and that would throw me a lot at first. By the end I was able to keep up with him, though.
...Lots of flashbacking.
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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#747190 - 07/15/02 05:02 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Another thing I noticed is that his female characters were deep and well-described, often talking about them as children and what their family life was like as children and who their parents were.
Meanwhile, the male characters were all one-dimensional. Discussion was rarely if ever made about the past of any of the male characters.
For example, we find out who DL is, where she came from, how she turned out to be the person that she is, but there's nothing like that about Zoyd.
I wonder if this was done subconsciously or inentionally and what the implications are in either case?
Seperately, I am curious as to who Pynchon is. My guess would be that he is an ex-hippy 'revolutionist'. He seems really bitter about the America and what she has become since with what started around the time of McCarthy.
What he was saying about TV and it's effects on society reminded me a lot about what the movie "Network" had to say about the same issues. You should definately check out that movie if you have never seen it.
That's another complaint btw, I did not enjoy the bitterness that saturates the book.
--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#747297 - 07/15/02 06:18 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's been years since I read Vineland so I can't really add much to this but...
The flashbacks are a device he uses in all his novels. As with all things Pynchonian, I'm not sure what's behind it. It's often not as simple as just a flashback, either: he uses all sorts of tricks to disrupt the linearity of the narrative, leaving you confused and bewildered (like the characters? Caught up in some incomprehensible plot you can only see the leading edge of?)
Hermann Melville did the same sort of thing in Moby Dick, and a lot less artfully. You don't read a Pynchon novel, you decipher it...which is the attraction, I think.
I'm really curious to see how this discussion goes...
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#747326 - 07/15/02 06:33 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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"Bitterness"?
Damn, now I'm gonna have to re-read it...bitter is the last word I would have associated with his writing. He is certainly critical of America (and not just modern America) at times but somehow gives the impression of an odd optimism...I always got the impression he was probably a slightly weary, amiable sort of guy, like your old high school history teacher or something...
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Pynchon]
#747425 - 07/15/02 07:18 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I will try to cite some examples.
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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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BuzzDoctor
Runs withscissors
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 948
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Pynchon]
#748355 - 07/15/02 01:25 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would say bitterness is an accurate word of his attitude towards the government and establishment, I didn't think it saturated the book tho.
Buzz
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Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: BuzzDoctor]
#748492 - 07/15/02 02:43 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is probably more accurate.
I am curious as to who Pynchon is though, and where he gained his...rare?...perspective.
Is anyone aware of any online biographies?
--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat
“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson
The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.
The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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BuzzDoctor
Runs withscissors
Registered: 08/10/99
Posts: 948
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
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Re: Vineland *DISCUSSION* [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#748518 - 07/15/02 03:03 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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He's pretty private I guess. Check this out
http://www.pynchon.pomona.edu/bio/
Buzz
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Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.
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