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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: Redstorm]
    #6267094 -

the vast majority of the world is egregiously out of touch with reality

zappa's not

it's all good


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6267207 -

It took a brutal dictator to lord over those people, Saddam was rendered impotent by repeated sanctions and No-Flyzones, plus autonomous areas in the north and south occupied by Shiites and Kurds.

Now we have a even major problem, A Iranian controlled Iraq with a Shiite swath that stretches across Syria and Lebanon... This really tips the balance of power in the region. Iran is the true victors of our invasion.

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #6269472 -

That certainly remains to be seen. But what is constantly being forgotten or ignored is that after 10 years of sanctions and defiance of inspections and bribery of at least 2/5ths of the permanent members as well as the bureaucracy of the UN, there was a tremendous push to end the sanctions. The sanctions couldn't hold forever and then it would be right back to business as before for the asshole. Nothing is static and this was proactive, with ample justification based on his previous behaviour. Whether they fall into a slough of extremist Shiia nonsense or not, it was still absolutely mandatory that saddam be taken out. In the end, these religious whackjobs are going to have to get their own ignorant selves out from under the yoke of their priest class, saddam or no saddam. Saddam's foot on their neck in no way furthered that evolution, it merely retarded it.


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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6269706 -

Maybe you should be asking yourselve why your republican gods helped install such a man to power in Iraq to begin with, what you reap.....


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Prisoner#1:  Hanky doesn't send PMs to retards

UncleLuke:  That's not true.  Hanky has sent me a total of 3 PMs.

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: Grizz]
    #6269728 -

Zappa isn't religious.

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: Redstorm]
    #6269733 -

He's quasi-religious in his devotion to the republicans, that's what I ment.


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Prisoner#1:  Hanky doesn't send PMs to retards

UncleLuke:  That's not true.  Hanky has sent me a total of 3 PMs.

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6269773 -

zappaisgod said:
That certainly remains to be seen. But what is constantly being forgotten or ignored is that after 10 years of sanctions and defiance of inspections and bribery of at least 2/5ths of the permanent members as well as the bureaucracy of the UN, there was a tremendous push to end the sanctions. The sanctions couldn't hold forever and then it would be right back to business as before for the asshole. Nothing is static and this was proactive, with ample justification based on his previous behaviour. Whether they fall into a slough of extremist Shiia nonsense or not, it was still absolutely mandatory that saddam be taken out. In the end, these religious whackjobs are going to have to get their own ignorant selves out from under the yoke of their priest class, saddam or no saddam. Saddam's foot on their neck in no way furthered that evolution, it merely retarded it.


:sigh:

are you aware that he's almost 70 years old? you make it sound like he was going to go on ruling for decades. we could have just let him fade out like castro...but wait a second...could it be that the real reason we went in to iraq was to install a a US friendly regime before saddam died and god knows who took power? when god knows who would have taken power all our "legitimate reasons" to swoop in and replace their government would have been effectively dead. it would have been much harder to build a case for regime change (which was all the iraq war was actually about imo) if the president couldn't cite twenty year old mass killings, and UN resolution violations from ten years ago that no one cared about anymore. Sure the basis of the iraq invasion was shakey at best, i'd call it BS and propaganda, but if you want to split hairs it worked. With a nobody regime it would have set the american imperialistic vision of the middle east back by years!

that's really the only valid reason to have gone into iraq. if you believe in american imperialism and the procurement of resources for the future then the war was absolutely mandatory. some would say the US taking the region is better than china doing it first years down the line. others think the whole idea is absurd and hitleresque, especially those from other countries. at any rate though, it's the only way you can justify the war i think, because saddam wasn't a threat to anyone except his own people and his immediate neighbors which pro-war people seem to have a fair-weather attitude towards anyways...

i'm sorry, but maintaining this ridiculous idea that saddam was dangerous enough to start this war is ridiculous. the facts have proved otherwise. i just don't see how anyone can still say his removal was mandatory, unless that person is a believer in the imperialistic agenda, which i don't particularly believe in, although i do understand it and respect the idea and those who support it, or at least acknowledge it exists...

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #6269781 -

i'm copy writing that conspiracy theory btw :lol:

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #6269821 -

Well said.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zorbman]
    #6269883 -

history is just repeating itself. The Republicans have been working solely on neo-McCarthyism to get "things done" in the last 5 years.

One question i have yet to see asked is: Why the fuck have the republicans become such philanthropists regarding Iraq?

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6270039 -

they are fair weather philanthropists. one minute we have to invade so we can save them all from the evil saddam, but they don't seem to bat an eyelash when thousands of innocent iraqis are killed as a direct or indirect result of our actions. It's political philanthropy and i find it disgusting.

and let's not forget the hypocrisy of invading iraq to save the people from tyranny while supporting other murderous dictators all over the world such as the president of uzbekistan who is reported have people boiled in oil. before the invasion, what was the difference between these two countries? uzbekistan is america's little bitch while saddam openly defied the USA.

let's not kid ourselves any longer, this has nothing to do with freeing the iraqi people.

zorbman: thanks

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #6270164 -

Two thoughts:

1. Filibuster

2. Veto


All of which is a stalled government. Thank God.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6270223 -

1) standing rules of the Senate: number 22

2) lame duck

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6270343 -

You are saying there will not be a veto?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6270422 -

veto equals lame duck. Also, there is only so much he can veto before completely alienating his own party. Like making Bills that are liberal, but have provisions which are beneficial to republicans and such.....

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6270431 -

Lame duck = just about 90% of any President in the last years of his second term


Whats stopping him? Alienate a party that no one voted for?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6270452 -

zappaisgod said:
What notion of Libertarianism do you guys think encompasses passivism. That's just flat out incorrect. Isolationism is not Libertarian nor is bend over and take it in the ass passivism. Sorry, kiddies, but you don't get to make nonsensical definitions out of whole cloth. Libertarian does not mean suicidal appeaser asshole. Defense is a tenet of libertarianism, it is one of the few bona fide government responsibilities. Unlike public education.


stop pretending the iraq war has done anything except cost us waaay too much $$, create terrorists, cost lives of soldiers, make our military look ineffective, tie us down so we cant adequetly threaten iran and murder iraqi civilians. iraq was better off for us and the iraqis with saddam in power

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #6270505 -

Evidence?

Or conjecture?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6270787 -

zappaisgod said:
That certainly remains to be seen. But what is constantly being forgotten or ignored is that after 10 years of sanctions and defiance of inspections and bribery of at least 2/5ths of the permanent members as well as the bureaucracy of the UN, there was a tremendous push to end the sanctions. The sanctions couldn't hold forever and then it would be right back to business as before for the asshole. Nothing is static and this was proactive, with ample justification based on his previous behaviour. Whether they fall into a slough of extremist Shiia nonsense or not, it was still absolutely mandatory that saddam be taken out. In the end, these religious whackjobs are going to have to get their own ignorant selves out from under the yoke of their priest class, saddam or no saddam. Saddam's foot on their neck in no way furthered that evolution, it merely retarded it.


Saddam should have ousted by his own people by their own will toward democracy, not a foreign nation for its own desires. Democracy only stands a chance if those involved want it, not if outsiders want it for them.

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Re: on january 1st the Democrats will control the entire Congress [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6270915 -

..it was still absolutely mandatory that saddam be taken out.

That is your opinion. An opinion resting on a cobblestone foundation which has been steadily removed piece-by-piece until the ridiculousness of your position is evident to everyone but yourself.

You are like Wile E. Coyote who has run off the edge of the cliff but not looked down..


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (11/11/06 05:15 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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