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General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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atheists & agnostics
    #5998064 -

Hello everyone.

Are there any other atheists and agnostics here?

i've read a lot of threads here talking about how psychedelics have brought many of you closer to god. More power to you, whatever makes you happy. The opposite has happened to me. i've come to believe we're all alone in the cosmos. This revelation did not come like a bummer, in fact the clearer i can see the truth and beauty of the natural world without the cloud of social pressures to believe in something that may or may not be there, the closer i come to my idea of enlightenment. That said, i think everyone out there has a very personal idea of this topic, i do not dare to think i alone am right. It's just my theory that we are floating through time and space as a result of billions of years of coincidences.

Goodnight.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5998163 -

There are plenty of atheists and agnostics here, but they're more likely to frequent the P&S forum than post here.


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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5998420 -

I am agnostic and I believe human life is of irrelevance to the cosmos but relevant to us as humans and socieities. You are not alone and there are others who drifted further from spirituality as a result of (1) use of psychedellia and (2) plain old growin up.

Coming from a Catholic upbringing I see myself as a breaker free from bs doctrination and a believer in myself!


--------------------

ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: TODAY]
    #5998612 -

TODAY said:
I am agnostic and I believe human life is of irrelevance to the cosmos but relevant to us as humans and socieities.  You are not alone and there are others who drifted further from spirituality as a result of (1) use of psychedellia and  (2) plain old growin up.

Coming from a Catholic upbringing I see myself as a breaker free from bs doctrination and a believer in myself!


Yes, you're right about the growing up part. My father is very religious and he used to take my sister & i to church every Sunday until we were 18 and old enough to do what we wanted. All that time i never really thought about religion deeply. i kinda just blindly followed what my dad wanted because i thought of it like another chore like taking out the trash..ect. When i went away to college, starting reading, listened to the world, tripped a lot  :cool:  , i started thinking more and more about the subject. i got fascinated with it actually. My conclusions are as stated above. i still occassionally go to church with my dad, more as a form of respect, but i don't buy it. i believe as a community we are to set the moral code and take care of each other, we can do that without fairy tales.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5998774 -

Psychadellics got me more in touch with my spirituality, which I previously knew nothing of. They didn't do anything for me in the religion category. I'm still an atheist and I probably always will be unless when I die my beliefs were false.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5998892 -

You might be interested in John C. Lilly. Anyways, I would consider myself something of a spiritual agnostic. We are all wrong. You can not hope to understand that which is EVERYTHING. You can try to be a good person a get closer to it. That's my idea at least.I do mean agnostic in the sense of I don't understand or pretend to know the nature of it all. I know when most people say agnostic they mean that they don't know if there is or isn't a god. Anyways that's that.


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Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5999092 -

i'm an atheist. i've got a bit of experience with psychedelics and i like reading physics, philosophy of mind, and eastern religious teachings. i think that this thing that's going on here is far more strange, beautiful, and mysterious than i'll probably ever know, without having to make up a big imaginary friend in the sky.


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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: wilshire]
    #5999118 -

as a teen i hated the church, for reasons that are easy to understand, like catholic priests with their little boys, or the evangelist with purple hair, money money money.

still i studied occultism and spirituality and religion, and became agnostic, meaning, i would believe in god if i had some proof.

faith sounded so foolish to me.

finally i received my own proof of God, by way of witnessing impossible miracles.
so now i really have no choice but to believe in God. it's not really a belief, it's a Knowing.

it's weird when i try to look back at the frame of mind i was in as a teen, i can't even recall what that was like.
and when i encounter atheists today, i always smirk and giggle because it's insanely funny to me that they can't see what i do, kinda like dealing with a child who can't figure out the chinese finger cuffs, or whatever.

it is mysterious to me that some people can eat truckloads of hallucinogenic drugs, and not experience any mystical proof for divinity of their own.
it's as if their attention is focused away from it, a refusal to allow the miracle to happen to them.

i firmly believe that i can take any person, and bring them into my home, and dose them with psychadelics, and arrange things so that they witness the miracle, so they have proof of God without a doubt.
and i even offer this service to people, but nobody really cares.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: Telepylus]
    #5999204 -

If it works for you to believe it, that's cool.  I am interested in the nature of the psychedellic experience  you had that changed your agnostic mind into one that believes without a doubt.  :mushroom2: was it mushrooms or another psychedellic?


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

Edited by TODAY (08/26/06 04:24 PM)

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: TODAY]
    #5999273 -

around age 18 i started heavy into shrooms and acid.
what started to happen is, some of the stuff i would read in books, like stuff about egytpian gods, or astral projection, stuff like that, suddenly started popping into life around me.
and i thought that was cool.

then sometimes i would have these amazing experiences of telepathy, or synchonicities that were sort of impossible to explain away.

the thing is, i could have dozens of mystical transcendental experiences like that, but really it meant nothing...
i would come down, and forget about it all a week later.

but, after doing this for years and years, slowly gradually all these trips seemed to build up into a larger more detailed picture of what was really going on via my symbiosis with psychadelics.

psychadelics can open your mind, but i think it's sort of irrational to think that one or two trips is going to really change your whole model of reality.

i'd like to give you an example of some of the impossible miracles i've witnessed.
when i was a teen sometimes i would get signals from invisible entities, as if my mind was having thoughts or conversations with beings much more intelligent than myself- this is how i knew it was outside of myself.
at first i wrote it off as just tripping.
but later these signals became more substantial, so that i would even write down my visions, to test the authenticity later.
once i prophecized the actual day i would conceive a child, over a year priory to it happening.
and it happened, along with some very strange circumstances revolving around, which if i told you, you probably wouldn't even believe me so i'll leave that part out- needless to say.
it's not the psychadelics that brought me near to God, it was my way of life and my perspective of things, that i could not have achieved without some perturbation of my consciousness, over time.

they say that God is Love.

i became a true symbiot with mushrooms, i hunted them obsessively, and grew them- not for profit.
and it was this LOVE for the insight mushrooms gave me, that led me to witness the miracles.

and i suppose that might be why some people fail to witness the miracle, is because their heart isn't in the right place i.e. they think of acid as a way of getting high.

my view has always been that the high mushrooms give you is just a by-product of power.
it takes a certain personal power to decide okay, i'm gonna alter my consciousness far enough to enter cartoon land.
personal power fails if it is not bound to Love.

an example, often times i would overdose and think i was dying.
so that i might even say, "i'm never doing this again"
but my love for insight (and power) was stronger than my fear and doubts.
and that ultimately led me to my own personal Proof that some outside intelligent is obviously governing our realities.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: Telepylus]
    #5999745 -

Telepylus said:
when i encounter atheists today, i always smirk and giggle because it's insanely funny to me that they can't see what i do, kinda like dealing with a child who can't figure out the chinese finger cuffs, or whatever.

it is mysterious to me that some people can eat truckloads of hallucinogenic drugs, and not experience any mystical proof for divinity of their own.



Well, i actually think that's a little degrading. i don't think religious people are stupid. Whatever you saw ...YOU SAW..

i can pray in one hand and shit in the other....you know the expression.

Seriously though, what are the miracles that you saw? i believe everything can be explained scientifically. Eating truckloads of hallucinogens helped me understand myself and the world, but i never witnessed any miracles or saw god. The walls breathed, but that is the nature of the beast.  :wink:

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5999758 -

Ok nevermind, i read your follow-up post.

Well, thats all well and good. i'm glad you get such great meaning out of your experiences. i'm still waiting for this governing body you speak of to speak to me...until then i'll keep being the idiot child toiling with chinese finger cuffs..because i ain't seen shit except reality. COLD HARD REALITY. i'm still of the opinion that if there was a governing entity the world should be a hell of a lot better off.

Seattle is my favorite city BTW...

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #5999793 -

i'll try to give another example of the weird transcendental miracle sub rosa.

there is a certain artist that i am bound to mysteriously.
she is a member of the same Order as I AM, and although we have met in person twice, we've never talked.

this person knows everything about me
and includes intimate details of my personal life in her Art.
personal intimate details that are basically impossible to know.

and what makes it even more strange is when the Art appears to me, it is always at an exact precise moment that so that it basically causes the whole world to collapse around us, in this impossible mystical union transcending time and space, which means-
she may produce her Art months before i witness it, but as i'm witnessing it, everything comes together at that exact moment as if it was all planned out perfectly.

it's like synchronicity sort of, but imagine dozens of synchronicities happening all at once, defying all logic and reason.

just because atheists make me giggle, don't take offense by it.
children make me giggle too, and i love them all just the same.


--------------------

Law of Love

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: Telepylus]
    #5999820 -

OK, no offense taken.

i don't know what to say about your miracles. i don't know you enough to call you a liar and i wouldn't deny that what you experience may be true to you. i've always thought of the entire history of the universe as zillions of synchronicities happening all at once defying all logic and reason...i guess it's the very definition of agnostic that i write to that i don't believe humans can qualify what all these synchronicities add up to.

Lots of times weird stuff happens to me too, like i'll be thinking of a song and then that song will play on the radio or tv. Or i'll be eating breakfast and thinking of my mom, and then she'll call. i've always chalked it up to coincidence because there's a billion other times i'll be thinking those things and then NOTHING happens at all.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6000319 -

here's the thing though, it's not just random coincidence.
because these synchronicities only build into the miracle with this one person. (or elite group of people)

it's to the point that when she produces a new piece of art, i know right away that when i witness it, i'm going to witness a miracle.

it happens without fail.

and the only explaination i can come up with
is we are bound together by this Art sub rosa.

like the saying goes "does life imitate art or does art imitate life"

this is a person that can totally blow my mind, and each time it happens it appears we are both getting a little closer to something

something very powerful that is moving through the earth
something that is bigger than humanity

we are approaching some sort of pinnacle of history

during these moments, it's as if one's life flashes before the eyes, and everything that happening in your life, and your history culminates into one supreme moment of understanding the sublime perfection of it all.

and what is odd is, the two of us (me and the artist) aren't bound to one another by any personal intimacy or exclusive love for one another.
it appears that because we both love the same things, this happens.
it is the thing we love that is binding us together so strangely, as if some invisible intelligence is at work.
and we both honor this invisible intelligence because the experiences we are having are full of deep meaning and a sense of bliss.
what else can we call it but god?
what god? whose god? doesn't really matter, all that matters is it's happening to us.

and i have a feeling that perhaps someone reading this might be having these sorts of experiences too?
anyone?


i can understand agnostics
but i don't really understand atheists-
my brother-in-law is a devout atheist, he sternly refuses to allow himself to consider the notion that there may be some mysterious forces working between our consciousness.
and i think that because of this refusal to even attempt to listen or see, he never hears, and never sees.

i do firmly believe that every person witnesses the miracle of god, or this strange transcendental mystery in death though.
and inducing NDE can trigger the miracle.

if you believe that in death you just wink out and are done and gone, does that make it true?
i dunno.

but i do know that my ideas of god aren't induced by my own beliefs,or books i've read, because i never really held any beliefs, and i still don't. i just go with the flow and take it as it comes.
i only trust what i've seen and experienced with my own eyes.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: Telepylus]
    #6002984 -

i used to be agnostic/atheist for the same reasons.. however the same things that made me consider atheism later convinced me there is something more out there. but it doesnt come with a beard and sandals.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: Telepylus]
    #6003592 -

Telepylus said:
i can understand agnostics
but i don't really understand atheists-
my brother-in-law is a devout atheist, he sternly refuses to allow himself to consider the notion that there may be some mysterious forces working between our consciousness.
and i think that because of this refusal to even attempt to listen or see, he never hears, and never sees.




i've always thought the same can be said for believers. They want to believe its true so badly they read into common coincidences too much and make them into fantastical stories. i'm agnostic, not atheist, but i understand the atheist position. i mean, if you're someone like me (and there's plenty of us) who hasn't ever recieved a sign as you were talking about, then why should we take that leap if one never sees evidence? i don't call myself an atheist only because i don't think humans are capable of understanding the universe. There's always possibilities, but truly i believe we are alone.

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Re: atheists & agnostics [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6003829 -

I used to be atheist until I did mushrooms and it changed my world. I believe in a god/superior being but think we're all on our own path that eventually will lead to the same place in the end.(The Tao) I've become spiritual from my experience. Also, after noticing all the events that are too good to be true in my life that I feel the only way to explain something so outrageous would be a higher being. Though I don't think "god" has a set manuscript of code by which if I break then hellfire and brimstone will be upon me. Just a message of love.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing

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