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The Jesus Prayer
    #5685668 -

Well I stumbled on this while reading something on the shroomery (think it was a post from MarkostheGnostic), and am just really curious about it. So any in depth info would be greatly appreciated (I tried googling, but with no much luck, maybe cuz I'm really clumsy when it comes to using google  :blush:)

Peace  :sun:


--------------------


"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5686163 -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060630...5Fencoding=UTF8

If I can answer a question, feel free to PM me.

-MtG


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5686774 -

The Jesus Prayer--the continuous repetition of "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner"


Jesus denounces vain repetition in prayers:

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

This is the anti-Jesus prayer since it goes against what Jesus taught

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5686843 -

If I got this right, The Jesus prayer is about entering kind of a constant meditative state, continuosly beeing aware of it?
I don't understand nor see how is that "vain repetition"? it doesn't seem to be just meaningless repetition of given words.


--------------------


"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5686887 -

Well, it is a prayer, and it is constantly repeated, sure sounds like vain repetition to me.

I do not see in scripture that a meditative state is called for.

If you want to meditate on something why not carefully read the scriptures, this is the milk and meat of the soul.

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5686908 -

if you keep repeating to yourself that two plus two equals four, so you would remember that bit of knowledge how is it vain repetition? It has a purpose, thus it's not vain.

Scriptures are rather interesting, and I read from time to time. As for it beeing "the milk and meat of the soul", I would disagree.


--------------------


"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5687419 -

It's Christianity, take it for what it's worth. I could probably track down tons of examples of how meditation was used in the old/new testement....

The bible is so wishy-washy, and so many people belive "word for word" what it contains...I could support a rampant sexual forray if I took the time to do some biblical research. It's all about taking stuff OUT of context and only showing the supporting parts. . .

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5687448 -

the issue of repetition is interesting.

I repeated Yahweh while going to sleep and a woman yelled at me "shut up" (in my mind, hallucinatory) I considered continuing out of spite but wondered if perhaps it was a message from God....... or from someone distracting me from God?

All I know is sure you can pray just once..... and you're still right back where you came from. But to be in a meditative state while praying so you can COMMUNE with God.... that is the best way to pray.

and so it seems that one way to have acess to such states would be through repetition.

I mean I've sured prayed Jesus save me, transform me into your consciousness now and then.... but it hasn't really happened, or if so, imperceivably gradual [well not so, i mean i have noticed some changes but they are also from using Buddhist mantras too].. but what if you carried that prayer into a deep meditation, keeping it constantly in your mind, so that you could connect to Jesus?

Is that vain repetition? It may be. But the pressing question is... how does one pray in order to reap results and connect to that which they are praying to? The Bible is full of passages denoting going within to find the Kingdom...... especially the Gospel of Thomas....

curious things.

my observation from that night is that Yahweh resonates from the solar plexus to the throat down to the heart and provides a sense of balance and flows fluidly if resonated aloud.

I am not sure that that is what you are supposed to do with the name but I also know that if Yahweh is up there he understands and would teach me the proper way. I'm trying I just don't know what I'm trying... so whatever I'm trying is going to have to be patient while I am trying to access it.

or who knows anything. just be a good person in the mean time.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (05/29/06 07:18 PM)

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: leery11]
    #5687579 -

leery11 said:
or who knows anything. just be a good person in the mean time.


:thumbup: :heart:


--------------------


"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5688566 -

To me, it is calling aloud with your spirit, not in words persay, but with understanding, and feeling. If you are like me, you have been given the experience of knowing Gods eternal spirit.

I may say, "Father, Creator, please heal all the Children of this world from suffering and bless them with the awareness of your love and your grace. Forgive us of our wrongful trangressions, show us your divine light and reveal all our wickedness. I ask these things now, publicly displayed, that you may help anyone who reads these words to open their heart, mind and soul to you, and answer your call with all the strengh you have given them. I know that you are my soveriegn Lord, and that you sent your Son, most beloved of all your creations, here to this world, to tell us about you. "

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5688774 -

Fivepointer

You are wrong about everything. You worship a book instead of the living God. You are an idolater, and a heretic. Your ego is blocking your vision and you have renounced your faculty of reason.

You should try the Jesus prayer.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Do not mindlessly repeat the words in an attempt to achieve a meditative state.

Say each word and contemplate its meaning. Each time you repeat the prayer change the tempo. Each time you repeat the prayer emphasize a different word.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of the living God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Note words that are missing from the prayer: Please, worthless, humble... contemplate why those words are not included.

This prayer has infinite depth for those who pray it.

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: Triplexiosis]
    #5689041 -

"Vain repetition," like the Pharasees who liked to act holy, is about making a show of prayer - repetition for others to hear how 'holy' one is. It is the opposite of going into one's "closet" and praying under the Eternal Eye of God. "Vain repetition" is NOT what the Jesus Prayer, or Prayer of the Heart is about. Only a very very shallow understanding of the scriptures would result in making such a pronouncement. The Jesus prayer is obviously anything but vain. Although the last words "...a sinner" are not always enjoined, they serve to remind the praying person of his/her incompleteness outside of God. Sin separates the human from God, it is NOT about the instilling of pathological guilt for "Original Sin." It is a choice to believe in this doctrine (as promulgated by St. Augustine) or not. Jews do not believe in it and neither did Jesus - the doctrine did not exist then.

The Jesus Prayer belongs to a 1000 year Eastern Orthodox tradition that is kept alive by cave-dwelling monks on the Greek island of Mt. Athos. The postures and breathing techniques are considered to be a more preparatory stage than the actual prayer, much like the 'sitting samadhis' of Yoga (e.g., savikalpa, nirvikalpa) are preparatory to the 'natural samadhi' or Sahaj - which exists throughout all activities and even in sleep. Reading The Way of a Pilgrim by an anonymous seeker in 19th century Russia describes some of the benefits the prayer can impart. It is said to be based on Paul's words in Thessalonians 5:17 to "Pray without ceasing."

Many immature, non-comprehending evangelical or 'Bible-based' Christians seem to think that Biblical 'meditation' means 'thinking' about meanings of written scriptures. The highest form of prayer - contemplative prayer - is beyond their level of spiritual development. Contemplation, as is commonly known, results in transrational (non-discursive) and transpersonal (or transcendental) states of consciousness: holy spiritual states (holy spirit, to be archaic). The Gnostics were brilliant in their understanding of Hylics (materialists), and Psychic vs. Pneumatic Christians. Being suffused by God's "Uncreated Energy" (Orthodox Christian theology) IS an experience of Christian Gnosis.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: shroomydan]
    #5691512 -

You are wrong about everything. You worship a book instead of the living God. You are an idolater, and a heretic. Your ego is blocking your vision and you have renounced your faculty of reason.

I want you to cafefully ponder these verses. Every Christian knows that the Bible is not a mere book, it is The Word of God.

Pr 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Mr 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Lu 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Lu 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Ac 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Ac 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

Ac 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Ac 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

Ac 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Ac 17:11-12 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Ac 18:11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Ac 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Ro 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2Co 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Re 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Re 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5691603 -

the problem is there are many words of God.
Do you view the Gnostic Gospels as the word of God too? If not, why? The issue is not about God, it is about the men who compiled these books together and whether or not the words are REALLY the word of God.

You cannot take the assertion that they are true as proof that they are. What else do you have ? Do you have the holy spirit? Have you been reached to in such a way that leads you to KNOW the Bible is accurate.... or do you simply have hope and faith?

The Bible is a tool and it is a useful tool, sure..... but the word of God is not GOD ... it's just his word. The essence of God is more important than simple study. Transformation through the "Holy Spirit", union with the Father, marriage with the Son...

all these transformations are more important than dogma ever could be... and in fact dogma can blind you to the true path. To true connection.

So I ask you, what evidence have you that this is the word of God? If your only evidence is that it says so, then you need to look deeper. Have you FOUND God? Have you CONNECTED? Have you been transformed? Do you have deep personal evidence..... or are you just supporting a book out of habit?

It would take much digging and I would only do it if you expressed interest but I have seen it pointed out by his disciples in scripture that the doctrine they teach is for fools.... that it is rather absurd that they HAVE to believe it in order to be saved.

I am not sure exactly what is implied and perhaps you would understand it if I referenced the quote to you.... but reading a book and FINDING THE HOLY SPIRIT are two very different things. The Holy Spirit, whatever it is and however you find it..... is immune from corruption.... but the word of God is absolutely prone to being corrupted and misread.

Does it still work? As a tool? Can you open it and find exactly what you need, through guidance of a divine force? Perhaps.

But is this and this alone, really, truely, 100% the ONLY word of God? Are all other words of God invalid if they come from different books, different prophets, teachers, holy men...... ?

Believe what you will, having spiritual peace is a noble thing and you should not stop looking until you find it. But what exactly DO you believe? You sound dogmatic to me.

If I said that I were filled with Christ and he was writing this through me.... which is not true at all. But if I SAID that....... does that make it worth believing in?

What if I created a huge book full of dogmas and said that.... but it wasn't true? The Gospel of Thomas was one of the earliest accounts of Christ wasn't it? Why did the church suppress it then? Why did they suppress the gnostic gospels? Why did they do so many evil things with the Bible as their source of authority?

There are many questions... do not deny yourself the capacity to think criticially. If Christianity is right then it is right, and you will still be a Christian with a deeper understanding.... but don't stagnate yourself dude.

I want everyone to find God...... I want to find God. But you need something more than "I said so, so therefore it's true." you definitely need more than that!

if it works for you though, fantastic.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (05/30/06 07:39 PM)

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: leery11]
    #5691978 -

You cannot take the assertion that they are true as proof that they are. What else do you have ? Do you have the holy spirit? Have you been reached to in such a way that leads you to KNOW the Bible is accurate.... or do you simply have hope and faith?

Every true convert MUST have the Holy Spirit otherwise they are not a Christian (Ro 8:9, 1Co 2:14). And yes the Spirit does confirm with my spirit that the Bible is the infallible Word of God and I am His child, I know this to be a fact.


So I ask you, what evidence have you that this is the word of God? If your only evidence is that it says so, then you need to look deeper. Have you FOUND God? Have you CONNECTED? Have you been transformed? Do you have deep personal evidence..... or are you just supporting a book out of habit?

Every convert is convicted of sin by the Spirit, made a new creation, sin no longer has dominion on the new creation, and the truth is revealed by the Spirit. Nothing is done out of habit, but in the power of the gospel as illuminated by the Spirit.


It would take much digging and I would only do it if you expressed interest but I have seen it pointed out by his disciples in scripture that the doctrine they teach is for fools.... that it is rather absurd that they HAVE to believe it in order to be saved.

Every one is inherits eternal life BELIEVES THE GOSPEL! Salvation is not conditioned anything a sinner does, not on being good, not on repenting, not even on holding a set of doctrine, nothing. However the immediate result of conversion is a belief of the truth, repentance, and sin having been broken. In order for someone to be saved Jesus must have atoned for that sinners sins, this is the sole ground of salvation, nothing else.


I am not sure exactly what is implied and perhaps you would understand it if I referenced the quote to you.... but reading a book and FINDING THE HOLY SPIRIT are two very different things. The Holy Spirit, whatever it is and however you find it..... is immune from corruption.... but the word of God is absolutely prone to being corrupted and misread.

You don't find the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit finds you, and leads all His chosen into THE TRUTH, which is found in the Word, and applies it to the soul and mind. God makes sure all His children are taught by Him.(Joh 6:45)


What if I created a huge book full of dogmas and said that.... but it wasn't true? The Gospel of Thomas was one of the earliest accounts of Christ wasn't it? Why did the church suppress it then? Why did they suppress the gnostic gospels?

The non-canonical book of Thomas is clearly not part of scripture, and God's providence did not preserve it. God controls all events, especially the preservation of His Word.

Why did they do so many evil things with the Bible as their source of authority?
Because they were not Christians.


I want everyone to find God...... I want to find God. But you need something more than "I said so, so therefore it's true." you definitely need more than that!

Your right. The gospel must be brought home by the power of God and applied by the Holy Spirit, I can not convince anyone of the mystery of the gospel. That being said, man is still commanded to believe the testimony of scripture, just as they are commanded never to sin, both things are impossible for fallen man to carry out. This is why the entire process of salvation is solely of grace and not on merit in any way.

I hope that you might be brought low and shown what your righteousness is, and what God's righteousness is. The gospel reveals the righteousness of God.

Romans 1:16, 7 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5692210 -

So what happens if someone is lead away from that Gospel into another religious path, but feels just as liberated and saved as you do now? You say we do not find it, but that it finds us. That makes free will irrelevant to me.... what if someone is exposed to the Gospel, finds it ludicrous, and finds deep inner peace through Taoism instead? Did the Holy Spirit lead him that way, to Taoism? Why didn't it lead him to the Gospel since he's encountered it in his lifetime, since you say it is not up to us?

You are using scripture to prove scripture again. That is good that you say you have the spirit and that it has bolstered your faith, though. But frankly I cannot see divinity working in such a constrictive way, with only one path.

Most all of them claim their superiority at the cost of other religions being wrong. Therefore any religion you choose can lead to the same convictions that you hold now, but with a different flavor. Not any I suppose, but many.

How do you know the Jews aren't right, that Christ was not the messiah, for example? Or that the Muslims are right, that Christ was just a prophet and there are many more prophets out there.

There is almost assuredly a way to salvation through Christianity, and it is heavily rooted in scripture. I do not frankly see it as the only way. The way is the only way, and Christianity is a path to the way.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (05/30/06 09:49 PM)

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: leery11]
    #5692263 -

leery11, it is good to remain 'leery,' wary, suspicious as you have. Your interaction with fivepointer will expose you to a particular and all-too-commonly encountered 'form' of Christian belief. Fortunately it is only one form. Unfortunately, it dominates the 'Bible Belt' of the USA which parallels other forms of intolerance (e.g., religious and its concommitant ethnic forms).

Fortunately for the discerning mind, one can adhere to the teachings of the canonical Bible without believing erroneously that Jews (for example) are damned unless they confess Jesus Christ to be the Messiah. It is a mind rife with Obsessive-Compulsive, and/or Paranoid Personality organizations (or disorders, depending upon the degree) that attracts an absolutist religious stance. Muslim fundamentalists experience their scriptures the same way - it is a syndrome that underlies the personality of any religious bibliolator.

Both groups insist that only their perspective is acceptable by God, and they presume to say what is acceptable to God based on the singular, pivotal assertion that the canonical Bible, (or the Holy Qur'an) is the 'infallible word of God.' Both sides are equally convinced, which is the nature of their respective religious experience. Unfortunately, paranoid ideation is of the nature of a meglomania which tries to impose the individual's conviction (based on their experience) on everyone else, without any respect for anyone else's view. It is Orwellian "double-think" to claim that such an individual is acting out of 'love,' when in fact there is a rabidly manipulative element that masquerades as do-gooding. The so-called Holy Inquisition burned human beings alive but expressed justification because it was 'saving their souls!' This is absurd as well as evil to the core.

The Enlightened Christian discerns Truth (synonymously, Christ) in the traditions of other faiths. Such a Christian might secretly nurture the belief that his religion is best, but remains tolerant of others' faiths. The pathological individual, under the guise of 'infallible' Biblical writ (or Qur'anic writ) cultivates intolerance, hostility, prejudice and even murder. Fundamentalists even disdain other denominations within their respective world religion, and they are well known for the OCD trait of hair-splitting, as though doctrinal differences really effected the ultimate spiritual nature of a human being instead of translation of intellectual doctrine into a total Way of Being. Leery11...remain leery.

Peace.

-MtG


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5692266 -

"I hope that you might be brought low and shown what your righteousness is, and what God's righteousness is. The gospel reveals the righteousness of God."

What is righteousness of God according to the gospel? (iyho)


--------------------


"If there were no desire to heal, the damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've choosen here, I certainly would have walked away by now" Tool - Patient

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: fivepointer]
    #5692449 -

You can quote scripture till your fingers fall off. I believe in the truth of scripture. You, however, have failed to understand that "the word of God" has a broader meaning than those words which are written in the book. When you limit the word of God to those words written in the book (Bible is from the Greek biblos, meaning book), you are denying the infinity, activity, and life of God. God is alive and speaking. He did not stop speaking 2000 years ago when the last chapter of the bible was written.

Furthermore, even by your own solo-scriptora reasoning your argument does not stand. Scripture contains instances of God speaking to people where his exact words are not recorded. For example, God warns the magi to return home by a different rout, but he is not quoted (Mat 2: 12). If the words of scripture are the only words of God, then every time God speaks to someone in the bible he would have to be quoted.

Also note that "word" has different meanings. In the beginning of the Gospel of John we read; "In the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1: 1) - If you limit the "Word of God" to mean only the words written in the book, then you must translate the beginning of the Gospel of John to mean; "In the beginning there was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God", which is of course ridiculous. Not only is such a translation ridiculous, it makes you an idolater, because you equate the Bible with God. I pointed this out to you on an earlier occasion, but you didn't seem to get it last time, so I am repeating myself. I imagine you know what the Bible says about idolaters, and I'm sure you also know what it says about correcting those who are in error. You are in grave error friend, and your soul is on the line. Not only are you in error, you are attempting to spread your error to others, and I'm sure you also know what the bible says about that, something about a millstone being tied around one's neck and being cast into the sea.

If my words don't give you pause, then you should ask yourself why you are not concerned about the sin of idolatry when a brother points it out to you.

When you say the Jesus prayer, focus on the word living. Perhaps this will help you.

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Re: The Jesus Prayer [Re: shroomydan]
    #5695877 -

leery11 wrote:
So what happens if someone is lead away from that Gospel into another religious path, but feels just as liberated and saved as you do now?

Truth does not change because someone has a feeling. 2+2 is never 5, no matter how fervently you might "feel" it.

You say we do not find it, but that it finds us. That makes free will irrelevant to me....

Unconverted man has no "free will", his will is bound in sin and he is spiritually dead.

what if someone is exposed to the Gospel, finds it ludicrous, and finds deep inner peace through Taoism instead? Did the Holy Spirit lead him that way, to Taoism?

No.

Why didn't it lead him to the Gospel since he's encountered it in his lifetime, since you say it is not up to us?

He was never lead by the Spirit, the Spirit leads one into truth, not into a false belief system. Maybe at a later point in his life the Spirit will come and apply the Word and convert him. The Spirit comes like the wind to those who are ordained to eternal life, and the wind is not controlled by man's will. Your missing a point about grace, it is FREELY given by God. The fact that most will never be converted shows that is was never given to them, and it was not in the Divine purpose to give it to them.

You are using scripture to prove scripture again. That is good that you say you have the spirit and that it has bolstered your faith, though. But frankly I cannot see divinity working in such a constrictive way, with only one path.

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Most all of them claim their superiority at the cost of other religions being wrong. Therefore any religion you choose can lead to the same convictions that you hold now, but with a different flavor. Not any I suppose, but many.

Personal conviction does not change reality. You either know God, or you have a false god.

How do you know the Jews aren't right, that Christ was not the messiah, for example?

Scripture plainly declares the fact that the Jews were not right about Christ and He is the Messiah.

Or that the Muslims are right, that Christ was just a prophet and there are many more prophets out there.

Again since scripture is my authority for all doctrine, we know the Muslims are wrong.

There is almost assuredly a way to salvation through Christianity, and it is heavily rooted in scripture. I do not frankly see it as the only way. The way is the only way, and Christianity is a path to the way.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

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