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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs
    #3977937 - 03/27/05 11:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hello everyone. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with this combination. I have heard reports that Trichocereus peruvianus cacti actually have minute amounts of tyramine in them...making them potentially dangerous in combination with an MAOI.

I've read that the amount of tyramine in the cacti is extremely low, and as such, would hopefully not be toxic. SWIM is planning on ingesting 28g of high-grade dried peruvian torch skin and potentiating the experience with ~4g of Peganum harmala seeds. Have any of you fellow entheonauts experimented successfully/unsuccessfully with this combination. I would like to hear more about the interactions if anyone has any information.


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Offlinejben
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #3979396 - 03/28/05 08:02 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

welll http://www.erowid.org/plants/cacti/cacti.shtml that would be the link your looking for for experiences. you can get an idea from someone elses experience that is similar to what your aiming for.


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: jben]
    #3983071 - 03/29/05 01:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html

read it, it's good. it anwsers your question.

:stoned:


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: John]
    #3986903 - 03/29/05 09:42 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going to bump this thread again, because I think that it's important that everyone read what's in John's link. Great information.


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #3986989 - 03/29/05 09:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Wow i didnt know John was still around... I was always ogling the Avatar.:P.


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: Legoulash]
    #3987558 - 03/29/05 11:21 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if it is teh article i read a logn tiem ago it doesnt really say 100% all teh time it is ok. but just that it has been hear dof beign used by teh natives as a add mixture.

its really a pack your balls thing.

peace


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: the man]
    #3988114 - 03/30/05 12:34 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

So let me get this straight. Maois are important only when the hallucinogen is dmt ingested orally for the stomach enzyme thing, but on the other hand maois actually increase serotonin and hallucinogens work best when serotonin receptors are empty. Therefore maois should just be used in oral administration of weak or biologically unavailable hallucinatory material but not for potentation as the term itself is misleading. Please correct my understanding if I am wrong.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: eve69]
    #3989481 - 03/30/05 11:20 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Article is a must read - five beans.


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: eve69]
    #3991690 - 03/30/05 07:59 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Oh yeah that paper...Its weird not so many people have seen it...

I had exactly the same question...Hmmm was the MAOi in the experiment that showed diminishing psychedelic effects used just ONCE or was it in chronic use?

Case may be that a single use og a MAOI may indeed potentiate them but chronic use of MAOi;s (as in everyday use) build up ALOT of serotonine and attenuate psychedelic effects...


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: Psiloman]
    #3992067 - 03/30/05 09:16 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

was the MAOi in the experiment that showed diminishing psychedelic effects used just ONCE or was it in chronic use?




"In seven subjects given intramuscular injections of DMT (two at 0.35-0.55 mg/kg; five at 0.65-0.83 mg/kg), greatly reduced psychoactivity was observed when the experiment was repeated two days after having received 100 mg iproniazid daily, for 4 days"

Apparently use wasn't chronic, but the increase in serotonin levels from 4 days of twice-daily use of iproniazid was enough to significantly block some of the entheogenic properties of DMT.

It would be interesting to see the difference in mechanism for these MAOIs. I wonder if some potentiate certain chemicals while others only make your MAO enzyme insufficient to break down certain chemicals and at the same time are serotonin agonists and actually block some of the effectiveness when these chemicals hit the brain? Methinks this would be an interesting field of research to go into.

Let me know if anyone has any more good information concerning the interactivity of MAOIs and mind-altering substances.


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OfflineDiMiTriSouljah
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: eve69]
    #3992197 - 03/30/05 09:45 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

A couple of things to point out: they only mentioned the interactivity of certain MAOIs with LSD, DMT, and mescaline. The two tryptamines (LSD and DMT) both showed a marked decrease in effects when taken in combination with certain MAOIs (iso-carboxazide and iproniazid, respectively...which happen to both be irreversible inhibitors, binding to the MAO enzyme and destroying it) after at least 4 days of daily ingestion.

The phenethylamine; mescaline, however, is thought to be possibly potentiated by beta carbolines.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Cacti, Tyramine, and MAOIs [Re: DiMiTriSouljah]
    #3997454 - 03/31/05 10:09 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Now I know why I had a very weak experience with the Oms blotter that everyone was raving about. I had taken syrian rue earlier in the night to potentiate a Mimosa extract(that didn't work) and then decided to drop the 2 hits. I had very weak visuals and some thought distortion, but not the very far out there trip that everyone else seemed to be having.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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