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Offlineturboneger
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Registered: 03/19/05
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the Fly Agaric
    #3939756 - 03/19/05 01:54 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

From http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/24322 :

Amanita muscaria
The Amanita muscaria mushroom is also known as "Fly agaric" because of its (anecdotal) ability to attract and kill flies. The Amanita muscaria does not contain psilocybin or psilocin. Rather, the hallucinogenic chemicals this mushroom contain are muscimol and ibotenic acid.
The fly agaric is related to some deadly mushrooms: the Amanita virosa (the "Destroying Angel"); Amanita verna and Amanita phalloides (the "Death Cap"). These mushrooms contain toxins that destroy cells in the liver and kidneys. Five to 24 hours after eating one of these toxic mushrooms people may become sick with nausea and stomach problems. Later, severe liver and kidney damage may occur, often resulting in death.Visualy these are the classic "toadstool" with a bright red to orange cap covered in white flecks and a strong white stem and gills.

The wording is very unclear here, are they saying they are all poisionous ? Or just the Fly Agaric's relatives?
They have those things growing all over the forests here!!! How much should I eat? the doses on erowid don't really help .. Are there any poisonous lookalikes ?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: turboneger]
    #3939805 - 03/19/05 02:06 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

First of all, the fly agai ric does not really kill the l flies. IOt only inebriates them so that they are unable to function and fly and thus they fall tot he floor or table. The chuckchee and Koryaks would grind fly agaric into a powder and leave it on a table mixed with sugar. The flies are attracted to it and come and nibble.. Then they go to fly away and fall, stoned out of their gords.

Then the kitchen person or whomever comes along with a fly swatter and kills the flies.


AS for the Amanita, most people have an uncomfortable trip under their influence and its use is restricted to a minority of counter culture people. James Arthur and jonathan Ott both like the amanita.

The muscaria and a few others are not poisonous nor are they really hallucinogenic. More like an alcohol inebriatin with a few surpising visuals in your imagination.

mj


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: turboneger]
    #3939829 - 03/19/05 02:10 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

These mushrooms contain toxins that destroy cells in the liver and kidneys. Five to 24 hours after eating one of these toxic mushrooms people may become sick with nausea and stomach problems. Later, severe liver and kidney damage may occur, often resulting in death.




^^^^is referring to Amanita virosa, Amanita verna, and Amanita phalloides

Quote:

Visualy these are the classic "toadstool" with a bright red to orange cap covered in white flecks and a strong white stem and gills.




^^^^is referring to A. muscaria

yes, it is confusing and should be rewritten.

a. muscaria is also toxic and many do get sick when they consume it. i have never heard of any deaths caused by muscaria though. maybe somebody else can tell you more about the effects of fly agaric's toxins.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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Invisiblezerozero
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Registered: 09/01/04
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3939858 - 03/19/05 02:18 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

so the fly is coming to the sugar in the mixture, and not the Amanita muscaria??


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3939879 - 03/19/05 02:23 PM (12 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

The muscaria and a few others are not poisonous nor are they really hallucinogenic.




that's a little misleading mj. a. muscaria is toxic and hallucinogenic, though only mildly. ibotenic acid and muscimol are the major toxins in a. muscaria. muscarine is also present in lesser concentrations.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3942099 - 03/20/05 12:28 AM (12 years, 11 days ago)

There have been a few fatalities from Amanita muscaria, basically associated with large doses or prior poor health. Such deaths are rare and not considered a normal outcome, unlike the various deadly species of Amanita.

Happy mushrooming!


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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InvisibleBobHumboldt
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Re: Soma is the Spirit of God [Re: ToxicMan]
    #3974944 - 03/27/05 02:55 AM (12 years, 4 days ago)

Hi there... I'd never claim to know a thousandth as much as mjshroomer or any of the oldtimers especially about psilocybe. I know, though that psilocybe cyanescens picked in the dunes three miles from my house kicks ass with one bone dry gram. And Mushroom John, I tip my hat all the way to my feet and thank you, and folks like Paul Stamets for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.

I've eaten Amanita Muscaria quite a few times. I actually prefer it to psilocybe. I can drink the right mix of Amanita tea and pretty much go about my business and feel like a God at the same time, with a 200 IQ and total serenity. But it's not a toy. Sometimes you can get the "twitches". Not nearly as predictable as psilocybin. Obviously it's not the same as Teonanacatl. I mean, set and setting are important, but Soma is tricky.

Do some research. Check out http://redangels.yage.net <- that's Hawk and Venus's site. They wrote Soma Shamans, which is a wonderful book about Amanita Muscaria. Also read "Soma" by Wasson. And Heinrich's book Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy. James Arthur's book is ok, but egotistical in my own opinion. He seems hung up on being a big time shroom prophet.

Donald Teeter also wrote a great book called the Sacred Secret, about Soma. And way back when Wasson was first figuring out what was happening in Mexico, Andrija Puharich wrote a wild book about Soma, linking Amanita Muscaria to Ancient Egypt, and time travel, called "The Sacred Mushroom." (He went on to work for the CIA, lol.)

Erowid does have good information. I put my recipe for tea at this spot on erowid: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=29578

And one time when I heard the word of God after eating Soma, I wrote about it here: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=33297

But again, with Amanita Muscaria, one does have to have some respect. I suppose that's true with psilocybin, also, but the preparation of Soma has to be done just right, or you can get sick. It won't kill you, though. And there are no "look alikes" that I know of, if one is moderately careful. I mean, there are some different varieties of Amanita Muscaria, but as long as you don't eat the Panther Mushroom, or the Destroying Angel, you should be ok. Just be damn sure what you're doing before you take a ride on the Soma Express.

Peace


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Offlinewallace
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Re: Soma is the Spirit of God [Re: BobHumboldt]
    #3975087 - 03/27/05 04:17 AM (12 years, 4 days ago)

BH, just curious, what is your personal tried and true preparation?


--------------------
Wallace


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InvisibleBi0TeK
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Registered: 11/07/02
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: turboneger]
    #3975344 - 03/27/05 08:54 AM (12 years, 3 days ago)

Some people class A. muscaria as a prime edible mushroom.

http://www.williamrubel.com/Mushrooms/muscaria.html

Quote:

William Rubel said:
My own interest in A. muscaria is culinary. My interest was piqued many years ago when I read a field guide that said that while the mushroom is poisonous, in Japan it is pickled and eaten as food. Reading this I called my mycologist friend, David Arora, author of Mushrooms Demystified, and All the Rain Promises, and more. David lists A. muscaria as poisonous in the current editions of his books. The first reference book he turned to after I called him said that the mushrooom is poisonous, but that the author had a friend who eats it regularly with no ill effects. Stating that A. muscaria is poisonous, but that it is commonly eaten as food by a friend or by people somewhere else, is a recurring feature of books on mushrooms. As early as 1900, George Atkins wrote in his book, Studies of American Fungi, that while the mushroom is "deadly as ordinarily found," it is eaten ". . . as food in parts of France & Russia, and it has been eaten repeatedly in certain locatities in this country without harm."

Foreign authors write in the same vein. A recent Lithuanian field guide states that the mushroom is poisonous, but that it is eaten in the mountains of France and Austria. The most popular Italian field guide, Bruno Cetto's I funghi dal vero, volume 1 says that muscaria is poisonous, but that it is eaten cooked and pickled in Russia, France, and in the Lake Garda region of the Italian Alps.

So, what is going on? First, there is the old semantic problem that by custom all mushrooms are labled poisonous, whether they might make you a little sick or whether they might send you to your grave. Also, no effort is made to clarify whether a mushroom's ill effects are countered by cooking -- which they often are. While field guides are accurate guides to classification, in the area of edibility, they can be more of a guide to local preference and prejudice than scientifically accurate.

Consider, outside the realm of fungus, the case of the famous puffer fish. This fish is clearly highly toxic. A small amount of puffer fish toxin kills you. On the other hand, prepared properly, if the organs, such as the liver, are removed without puncturing, it is perfectly safe to eat and is, in fact, eaten in great quantity, and at great cost, most famously in Japan. American food magazines frequently run glossy spreads on Japanese fugu restaruants. If the same attitude were applied to a mushroom such as A. muscaria, a food far less dangerous than puffer f ish, mushroom field guides would not label the mushroom poisonous, and it would be served in restaurants -- as it is in Japan in the Nagano Perfecture.

Despite references to the mushroom as being "poisonous" I figured that there were enough references to pickling the mushroom that it would be safe to eat it if I began culinary preparations the way mushroom pickling is begun -- with boiling. In consultation with David Arora I begin eating A. muscaria after having boiled it in lightly salted water for a few minutes. Even though I had confidence that the boiled mushroom would be pefectly safe to eat, I worked up, one day at a time, from a tiny piece of cap, to a quarter cap, to half a cap, to a whole cap, and the only effect, which increased as the quantity of cap eaten increased, was one of great pleasure, because the Santa Cruz, California, variant of A. muscaria is big, thick, and sweet tasting.

Since the initial testing period, David has fed hundrds of people A. muscaria with no ill effect. David has also now visited Nagano Prefecture, Japan, and seen the Japanese A. muscaria harvest, eaten at a restaurant that serves the mushroom, and tasted the famous Japanese muscaria pickles. One of his photographs from that trip is published below.

In addtion to A. muscaria's reputation as a drug for shamans, or as a pickle for a Japanese meal, I'd like to add that to mushroom collectors muscaria is known as a beacon, an omen of good tidings. It is what mushroom collectors call an "indicator" mushroom. Where muscaria is growing boletus edulis, the porcini of Italy, is likely to grow too.





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PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: the Fly Agaric [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #3977125 - 03/27/05 08:36 PM (12 years, 3 days ago)

i also find they taste ratehr good. i dotn really liek any mushrooms at all for eating. they however came close to good *tasting* (opposed to texture) to me.

when i was camping i would put them in tinfoil and cook them a bit. at home i jsut put in oven @175 (lowest settign on our stove) and elave for an hour. then i jsut dried it out in the dehydrator if it wasnt already dry.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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InvisibleBobHumboldt
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Re: the Fly Agaric - Nothing Fancy Tea [Re: kadakuda]
    #4007500 - 04/03/05 03:50 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Hey, in re: Recipe for Soma Tea...

My best recipe for Fly Agarics is just to take about 10 grams, dried at 140 degrees. Get them dry, but they don't have to be bone dry. Put them in a pot and pour boiling water over them and let them soak for about a half hour. Then filter the tea through a strainer. I like the tea with honey and milk. In spite of some people who say they like the taste, I don't. But they'd probably be ok if cooked in an omlette or something, I just don't know what that would do with the potency.

All I know is from reading Wasson's book and Teeter's book, and James Arthur, and Heinrich, and Hawk and Venus's book and my own experience. My own opinion fwiw is that Soma is the Counselor that Jesus said would return after he died, aka Paracletes. In the Douay-Rheims Bible (a translation of the Latin Vulgate and the original Catholic Bible), Soma is refered to as supersubstantial bread.

Obviously, used in Siberia and by the North American Indians in Michigan (Keewaydineque, pardon my spelling, near Dexter Michigan), and the Holy Grail -- all the same thing.

The traditional use, from what I gather has always required them to be dried and then eaten; or reconstituted so that the tea can be consumed. My preference for tea is based on maybe 20 times consuming the Amanita's last Fall/Winter. Some picked locally and some ordered on the 'net. They're also pretty tolerable just eaten dried and chopped in pieces, but again, I'm not a big fan of the taste.

Also, I've heard that one should avoid carbonated beverages while eating Soma. Hawk (redangels.yage.net) wrote that he eats them raw, but he's a Soma Shaman and communicates with the mushrooms so that he can do that safely (he eats Panther Mushrooms, too, he writes). The only time I've ever gotten sick was once when I made the mistake of mixing carbonated beverages with Soma. Don't do that. (See Teeter's book for the reasons why.)

And the piss-drinking aspect, ahem, no comment. To jump that hurdle you have to already know that,

Soma is the Spirit of God.

Peace


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