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Invisiblericochet
Registered: 12/19/04
Posts: 1,112
Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC
    #3899438 - 03/10/05 08:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op...r=0&thold=0


thoughts?


P.S. I don't know why the words "con-tradicted" and "communi-ties" were hyphenated. :confused:


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OfflineSWEDEN
Miracle of Science

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: ricochet]
    #3899455 - 03/10/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

economic justice. Now lets bulldoze that forest and build the rest of the mall.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: ricochet]
    #3899499 - 03/10/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, Queens shows it actually has some class.
I like it.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: ricochet]
    #3899667 - 03/10/05 09:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: ricochet]
    #3902056 - 03/11/05 12:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you don't need unions to win justice for workers.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: ricochet]
    #3902122 - 03/11/05 12:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It's nice to see the people actually have a say in what comes into their community. We have a similar issue with a store called Miejers (pronounced MY-ERRS). It;s about the same size as Walmart but sells food and is open 24hrs. The traffic usually sucks around it and the people who work there are not well payed at all which usually means the service sucks.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblemantis
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Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 5,235
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: afoaf]
    #3903032 - 03/11/05 03:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
you don't need unions to win justice for workers.



How can workers realistically fight back without a union?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: mantis]
    #3903479 - 03/11/05 04:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

they can always work for someone else.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3909923 - 03/13/05 01:44 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The problem is that people drive out to communities to shop at Wal Mart and then the communities that originally stood up against Wal Mart lose a boatload of sales tax revenue. They get the double axe. They lose revenue and jobs, and the people still shop at Wal Mart. You simply can't stop people from finding a Wal Mart, and they beat everyone on prices.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3915267 - 03/14/05 06:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The problem is that people drive out to communities to shop at Wal Mart and then the communities that originally stood up against Wal Mart lose a boatload of sales tax revenue.




how? they (Wallmart) still has to pay for it's sales tax. If Wallmart leaves then they are in the same boat that they were before wallmart arrived.

Quote:

They get the double axe. They lose revenue and jobs




then they shouldn't bitch about wallmart coming into their communities. There are some good that comes from Wallmart, and there are some bad things. That community needs to decide if the plusses outweigh the negatives. Noone forces them to go there or even apply for a job. It all comes down to personal; responsibility.


Quote:

You simply can't stop people from finding a Wal Mart, and they beat everyone on prices.




It is possible to not shop at Wallmart. I think I may have been in a Wallmart one or two times. There are plenty of options. But if they have the lowest prices then what is the complaint. Noone is forcing people to apply for a job.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3916286 - 03/14/05 02:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Personally, I'll only go to Walmart if I have a large variety of items that I need to pick up, I don't really care about the price and have no problem paying more somewhere else, but it's just so damn convenient to be able to find everything I'm looking for under one roof as opposed to drving all over town.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Rono]
    #3916480 - 03/14/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think a majority of the people that complain about Wal Mart are only doing it because everyone else is. My only complaint about wallmart is that they are an eye-sore. Their buildings are uninviting and cause excess traffic. Other then that I couln't careless what wallmart does as long as it's within the law.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3916971 - 03/14/05 05:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Other then that I couln't careless what wallmart does as long as it's within the law.

http://www.intellectualpoison.com/WalMartisPureEvil.html

This company holds the record for the most suits filed against it by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. A lawyer from "Business Week" (not exactly the bastion for supporting Labor) said, "I have never seen this kind of blatant disregard for the law." They had to pay $750,000.00 in Arizona for blatant discrimination against the disabled! The judge was so incensed that he also order them to run commercials admitting their guilt.
* The National Labor Relations Board has issued over 40 formal complaints against the corporation in 25 different states in just the past five years. The NLRB's top lawyer believed that their labor violations, such as Illegal spying on employees, fraudulent record keeping, falsifying time cards to avoid paying overtime, threats, illegal firings for union organizing etc., were so widespread that he was looking into filing a very rare national complaint against the company. (The company contributed $2,159,330.00 to GW Bush and the GOP in 2000 and 2002. The NLRB attorney was replaced when President Bush took office.).
* Nearly 1 MILLION women are involved in the largest class-action suit every filed against a corporation. Although women make up over 65% of this corporations work force only 10% of them are managers. The women who have become store managers make $16,400 a year LESS then the men.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3918233 - 03/14/05 11:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

The problem is that people drive out to communities to shop at Wal Mart and then the communities that originally stood up against Wal Mart lose a boatload of sales tax revenue.




how? they (Wallmart) still has to pay for it's sales tax. If Wallmart leaves then they are in the same boat that they were before wallmart arrived.

Quote:

They get the double axe. They lose revenue and jobs




then they shouldn't bitch about wallmart coming into their communities. There are some good that comes from Wallmart, and there are some bad things. That community needs to decide if the plusses outweigh the negatives. Noone forces them to go there or even apply for a job. It all comes down to personal; responsibility.


Quote:

You simply can't stop people from finding a Wal Mart, and they beat everyone on prices.




It is possible to not shop at Wallmart. I think I may have been in a Wallmart one or two times. There are plenty of options. But if they have the lowest prices then what is the complaint. Noone is forcing people to apply for a job.




My point was that people in New York City travel to the Hempstead Wall Mart and other Wal Mart locations to shop. The sales tax revenues go to Hempstead, not New York. The jobs and employment taxes go to Hempstead, not the city. People are still going to shop there, and not letting them in just gives another community an advantage.

Some people win and some people lose when Wal Mart comes to town. Not letting them into town will benefit some while hurting others. Overall I think the long term policy of not letting them in will hurt cities like New York. You can bet your sweet ass that the people of Hempstead don't mind all that commerce at the expense of someone else.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3918272 - 03/14/05 11:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

We have that exact situation in Chicago. No Walmarts in the city so everyone goes to the Skokie Super-Walmart. I have only been there once because it is so crowded you can barely walk down the isles. Its either that or pay 4X as much at a Chicago store.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Catalysis]
    #3918377 - 03/14/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the comment Cat. That situation is going to be a huge drain on the Chicago tax base. I think that cities who embrace Wal Mart will end up ahead in the long run vs. the cities that don't. Time will tell, but people shop with their feet.


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Tastes just like chicken


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3919793 - 03/15/05 07:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

My point was that people in New York City travel to the Hempstead Wall Mart and other Wal Mart locations to shop. The sales tax revenues go to Hempstead, not New York.




what? If there is sales tax then the money goes to the State of New York. If Hepstead (I have no idea where that is) is in the state of New York then New York does indeed get the sales tax. That's how it works.

Quote:

The jobs and employment taxes go to Hempstead, not the city.




you don't know that. I work in a different city that I shop and live in. I drive about 1/2 hour away to work. what makes you think that people in New York do it diffeently?

Quote:

Some people win and some people lose when Wal Mart comes to town.




winning and losing is relative. I haven't lost or gained anything from Walmart. we have about 2 or three in my general area and been there about 2 times. That argument is old and tired.

Quote:

Overall I think the long term policy of not letting them in will hurt cities like New York. You can bet your sweet ass that the people of Hempstead don't mind all that commerce at the expense of someone else.




I don't see New York being affected by wallmart. The cost of living in New York is extremely high and those living in it will and can find alternatives.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3919886 - 03/15/05 07:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

In NY state sales tax is split up between the state, the county and sometimes the municipality. That's why there are different sales tax rates all over the state. State gets 4.5%, most counties get around 4%. So, NYC does lose tax revenue. Quite a lot in fact.

As to the cost of living in NY, that too is wildly disparate. Very wealthy and very poor and everything in between. Some things are expensive but then again there is absolutely no need to pay for a vehicle. This Wal-Mart was not going on the upper East Side, it was going to, I think Brooklyn, maybe Queens. No matter, both places are overwhelmingly middle class and a lot of the people there do shop carefully.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3919896 - 03/15/05 08:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In NY state sales tax is split up between the state, the county and sometimes the municipality. That's why there are different sales tax rates all over the state. State gets 4.5%, most counties get around 4%. So, NYC does lose tax revenue. Quite a lot in fact.




As far as I know State tax doesn't change no matter where you are in the State. City tax is a different matter. and I could be wrong but counties don't regulate their own sales tax. (but I could be wrong). With that said, so what? I still fail to see how NYC (one of the richest cities in the world) gets hurt because Wallmart is in or out of the city.

Quote:

As to the cost of living in NY, that too is wildly disparate. Very wealthy and very poor and everything in between.




Are you taking about the city or State?

Quote:

This Wal-Mart was not going on the upper East Side, it was going to, I think Brooklyn, maybe Queens.




so how does this hurt NYC? These are suburbs.

Quote:

No matter, both places are overwhelmingly middle class and a lot of the people there do shop carefully.




so who is hurting? From what I see, the poorer are benefitting from lower prices.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Wal-Mart kicked out of NYC [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3921739 - 03/15/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
Quote:

In NY state sales tax is split up between the state, the county and sometimes the municipality. That's why there are different sales tax rates all over the state. State gets 4.5%, most counties get around 4%. So, NYC does lose tax revenue. Quite a lot in fact.




As far as I know State tax doesn't change no matter where you are in the State. City tax is a different matter. and I could be wrong but counties don't regulate their own sales tax. (but I could be wrong). With that said, so what? I still fail to see how NYC (one of the richest cities in the world) gets hurt because Wallmart is in or out of the city.

You ARE wrong. We're talking about sales tax here and it is not the same throughout the state. The counties DO regulate their own sales tax, as do some cities. Sales tax in NYC is higher than in Alleghany county, which is less than Westchester, which is more than Putnam. No biggie, you just don't know NY.


Quote:

As to the cost of living in NY, that too is wildly disparate. Very wealthy and very poor and everything in between.




Are you taking about the city or State?

Both, but specificly the city

Quote:

This Wal-Mart was not going on the upper East Side, it was going to, I think Brooklyn, maybe Queens.




so how does this hurt NYC? These are suburbs.

Now this is where you go completely off the tracks. NYC is comprised of five counties, New York, which is Manhattan, Kings, which is Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, and Richmond, which is Staten Island. They are all part of NYC. Five counties, one city, one mayor, one council. In fact, one sales tax and one city income tax.

Quote:

No matter, both places are overwhelmingly middle class and a lot of the people there do shop carefully.




so who is hurting? From what I see, the poorer are benefitting from lower prices.




I think the point being made here is that by not taking advantage of a popular store which is otherwise reachable in another municipality NYC is forfeiting tax revenue which it would otherwise receive. NYC loses a lot of sales tax revenue because New Jersey doesn't charge sales tax on clothes. NJ doesn't gain any but NYC still loses revenue. There is unquestionably sales tax revenue lost to NYC when people go out of town to shop. That is all.


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