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Offlinefarmer_maggot
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Registered: 08/13/01
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Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill
    #376686 - 08/22/01 10:07 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)


Verm seems to be a bit difficult to find, perhaps because of the asbestos scare associated with verm.

There have been several posts about polyfill and coco fiber. I would like to summarize the alternatives based on what i have read. Please correct or confirm these statements:

Alternative to verm in substrate:
I don't believe either coco or poly have been suggested as alternatives to verm in the substrate itself.

Alternative to verm seal:
Polyfill can serve as an alternative to verm seal in jars.

Alternative to verm in 50/50 casing:
Either poly or coco can serve as alternative to verm in 50/50 casing.

Are all those statements true?





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OfflineShiznitz
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: farmer_maggot]
    #376727 - 08/22/01 11:28 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Verm is the best, and only thing that I have heard you can use to mix with brf in the jar.

The verm seal isn't really required. It reduces contams, but you don't "really" need it. Yes, poly fill can be substituted, but I believe verm. is better.

many things can be used to case. Fanaticus even suggests using perlite as your bottom layer. And for the top layer, coco fibre is even better than verm.

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OfflineLarrythescaryrexS
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: farmer_maggot]
    #376774 - 08/23/01 12:46 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

don't use the verm seal layer... it isn't really needed.

larry

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InvisibleNDK
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Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 186
Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #376897 - 08/23/01 06:44 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

If you are going PF you are going to wanna find verm. Pure rice cakes don't tend to fruit like PF ones unless cased. The top verm layer acts as an excellent barrier against infection in the jars.

You should be able to find it. It is one of the most widely used mineral substances on earth. I know they sell it mail order on many internet sites. A large bag will last for ages.



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OfflineHipcat
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: farmer_maggot]
    #376926 - 08/23/01 08:43 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I have used coir/verm (50/50) as a replacement for verm in
PF cake recipe and it worked great, in fact much better than
straight verm. I believe that using coir to replace all of the
verm will work just fine, however may need some lime to adjust
PH. In the near future I plan to test this idea.

As far as the the verm layer on top goes, I've always used it
because I had vermiculite but I think you can get away without
it.

A side note. I have also substituted 50/50+ casing for the
verm in PF cake recipe with favorable results. Perhaps verm
could be replaced with peat adjusted with lime.

Peace, Hipcat



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: farmer_maggot]
    #376941 - 08/23/01 08:59 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm, actually neither of the 3 statement is true.

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InvisibleNDK
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Posts: 186
Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Anno]
    #377012 - 08/23/01 11:33 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Expand Anno.

Which 3 statements, why and what is true!?



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Offlineshellacct
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: farmer_maggot]
    #377017 - 08/23/01 11:37 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Why does everyone keep saying that vermiculite has been so freaking hard to find? I see it everywhere i go.... i nought TEN bags of it when i heard that it might be getting scarce.... and yet still, everytime i goto any store's garden section around my way they have at least one skid worth of vermiculite (about 50 bags)... If you are REALLY having a hard time with getting some and want some, let me know, i'll get ya some.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer J. Simpson

In the above, Any and all references to reality are entirely fictional.

Just because you are paranoid, don't mean they're not after you...


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In the above, Any and all references to reality are entirely fictional.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: NDK]
    #377026 - 08/23/01 11:53 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

>Alternative to verm in substrate:
>I don't believe either coco or poly have been suggested as
>alternatives to verm in the substrate itself.
Wrong. Coco coir can and has been used as vermiculite replacement in PF cakes with success.

>Alternative to verm seal:
>Polyfill can serve as an alternative to verm seal in jars.
Wrong. It can not replace the function of the vermiculite layer in PF jars. What it can be used for, is for creating a filter for gas exchange when using rye, birdseed or any other shakeable substrate.

>Alternative to verm in 50/50 casing:
>Either poly or coco can serve as alternative to verm in 50/50
>casing.
Partially wrong. Newer heard of anybody using polyfill as verm substitute in casings. Can?t imagine either.
Coco coir can be used as casing materials, either as is, or with addition of vermiculite, peat, limestone and crushed oystershells.

Have you ever actually had polyfill in your hands??


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InvisibleNDK
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Anno]
    #377542 - 08/24/01 04:03 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Oh right

I thought you were talking about Hipcat's statements. :-)



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OfflineVitticeps
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Registered: 07/23/01
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Anno]
    #377590 - 08/24/01 05:32 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Anno, polyfil can replace the function of the verm seal layer. Does the job just fine. Also over at mycotopia there is a guy who has been trying (successfully) polyfil as a verm replacement in the substrate mix. He says it's doing fine so far. Also posted a few pics of polyfil cakes.

I've used polyfil as a verm barrier replacement with no problems. Never tried it in substrate mix though.

What I have used with good results is Shultz "soil conditioner". It's kiln fired clay shards, resembles tiny bits of clay pots. Works great in substrate mixes and casings. Excellent water absorbtion and good evaporative rate. A bit heavy though.

-------------------------------------------
Come check out the new Mycotopia
http://www.mycotopia.net
-Vitti


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Vitticeps]
    #377607 - 08/24/01 06:25 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you for this interesting information, I learn something new every day.

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Vitticeps]
    #377615 - 08/24/01 06:57 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I've been trying a new TEK using new materials, i wanted to finish testing with a jar involving this stuff but i'm a big mouth dude, granulated cork, yes CORK is the way to go, just think a bit about what i'm saying and you'll see this material is superb in many ways. Try it with poting soil and BRF as a substrate or with peat moss as a casing layer. Just a tip, you have to moisten it with hot water to breakdown some of it's ipermeability before using it in the aplications above. It also works as an excellent contam barrier instead the normal verm barrier and it gives a more ventilated area.
Check out this link and you'll see what i mean:
http://www.granorte.pt/properties.htm

Me and my big mouth,
MAIA


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: MAIA]
    #377694 - 08/24/01 11:12 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

BTW,
1/4 poting soil
1/4 granulated cork
1/4 crushed rye berries
1/4 h2o

I'm still trying to get the proper water ratio, a little less water wouldn't hurt, but it's working great.

Day 8



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MAIA


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Offlinepatzee
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Re: Alternatives to verm - coco and polyfill [Re: Anno]
    #379376 - 08/26/01 06:26 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

Anno, you said"Coco coir can and has been used as vermiculite replacement in
PF cakes with success".

I will be ordering some coco fiber soon for casing per your advice in contam forum,
My understanding is this stuff is very stringy. How do you recommend using it as substrate?
Do you chop it up? If so how? Also what's the best way to measure for substrate recipes replacing
vermic with this? Same ratios? Also , if you please, how far will a 2 lb brick of coco go?
Thank you.

"He who knows and knows that he knows is wise follow him" (persian proverb)





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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Peat, Perlite, Rye Grain, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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