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OfflineMixomatosis
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Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
Loc: cipherland
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Only have your own thoughts!!!
    #3576800 - 01/03/05 11:04 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

The same applies to philosophy or spirituality. Besides, if you read something in a book and go "Hey that's great, let me apply this to my life!" you're nothing more than a mindless robot using other people's ideas to fill your own void of experience.
-Max Headroom

Ok, so this popped up in my thread on reading about spiritual wisdom.. it's somewhere down there if you want to see.

Max claims that you become a mindless robot when you read something smart and agree with it, skipping all that intellectual legwork it would take to come up with it on your own.

I'm reminded of part of 1984, when the main character gets ahold of the book written by the anti-establishmental "good guys." As he reads it the character feels as though he's going through a better-organized explanation of his own thoughts. This happens to me every now and then. In fact I have some thoughts in my own head I'd love to read about, 'cause they're disorganized and I don't have the vocabulary to express them.

But let's get back to Max's basic argument. "Using" other people's thoughts or wisdom qualifies you as an unthinking robot. Can you ever claim any idea as your "own"? Is it wise to avoid other people's wisdom, that is, conclusions reached by others after a lifetime of experience? Should I try putting my penis in a meat grinder? Or should I seek counsel from somebody who's been there done that?


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OfflineFrog
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Registered: 10/22/03
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3576869 - 01/03/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
The same applies to philosophy or spirituality. Besides, if you read something in a book and go "Hey that's great, let me apply this to my life!" you're nothing more than a mindless robot using other people's ideas to fill your own void of experience.
-Max Headroom

Max claims that you become a mindless robot when you read something smart and agree with it, skipping all that intellectual legwork it would take to come up with it on your own.





I disagree with Max's premise, that you become a mindless robot when you read something smart and agree with it.

After a certain amount of "living", and I think that at 46 years old I qualify for having lived that certain amount, one can read something and, even though not having done all the research that goes into it, get a "feel" that the resulting conclusion is the correct one.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Frog]
    #3577011 - 01/03/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You should use the wisdom of others to temper your own. A musician is continually influenced by the music he loves, but that does not make him (or her) a mindless drone devoid of creative impulse. Why not let someone else do the legwork? Why reinvent the wheel? As a programmer I constantly use the code others have written to streamline my development process. It is just good coding.


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Offline13eetleJuice
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3577315 - 01/04/05 12:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
Can you ever claim any idea as your "own"?




Doubtful. For damn near every idea I have ever come up with, someone has had that very same idea before me.


Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
Is it wise to avoid other people's wisdom, that is, conclusions reached by others after a lifetime of experience?




The jury is still out on this one. I thoroughly enjoy speaking with the elderly and benefitting from the insight they have gained in thier long life but at the same time I often feel compelled to experience things for myself, even after being warned not to do so in some cases.


Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
Should I try putting my penis in a meat grinder? Or should I seek counsel from somebody who's been there done that?




Sure go ahead. What bad could possibly come from putting your penis in a meat grinder? Why would you seek the counsel of someone who has been to the meat grinder and inserted thier external reproductive organs for processing? They may try to disuade you and what progress would you be able to make if you heed thier advice?


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3577338 - 01/04/05 12:55 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

if that is true then im sure he himself is a "unthinking robot", i dont believe that any human mind can come up with anything on its own, you develope your beliefs from what you know, and everything you know is not aquired internally, but externally, therefore, we are all robots.
"Beep. Beep."


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3577511 - 01/04/05 01:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

it seems like lots of the niftiest ideas throughout history have been ones that just popped into the inventor's head: the guy who dreamed about a snake in a helix shape or something and went on to discover DNA's double helix; the guy who wrote Kubla Khan 'received' the vision in an opium haze. I've had ideas pop in from nowhere, I bet it happens to everyone. Can we claim these ideas as our own? what about ideas we arrive at through long consideration and experiment. are these any more or less ours?


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: 13eetleJuice]
    #3577989 - 01/04/05 03:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

13eetleJuice said:
Doubtful. For damn near every idea I have ever come up with, someone has had that very same idea before me.




I came up with the idea that maybe we were each of us meant to be here to do what we were called by God, or by the Universe (if you don't beleive in God) to do. Then, one day, I was sitting in court and I was really bored.

It turns out that I had in my brief case a book that I had bought for one of my kids that I hadn't given to her yet called "The Secret Garden."

I pulled it out to read, because I was REALLY FUCKING BORED waiting for my turn.

Because I had read the book when I was younger, I turned to the introduction. It was in the introduction that the author of the introduction introduced me to the idea that there were forces outside our ken.

I did some research outside that and found an essay by Ralph Waldo Emerson, which I have posted on this forum previously, wherein he states that we all are here to do a specific thing, and if we just pay attention to the signs, not only will our jobs be easy, but we will be rich.

So some other people came up with the same ideas or conclusions that I came up with, after the fact. Does this make me a robot? I think not.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineAlan Stone
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3578420 - 01/04/05 08:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think it may be mental sloth if you just apply spiritual guides to your own life, but it's a necessary evil if you don't have any experience in the field you're researching.

Say you want to learn how to meditate. You find some exercises on the net and decide to follow the instructions to see where it will lead you. Somewhere along the way, you don't like the exercise and change it, becoming a factor in the mental process. That's just pragmatism.

Since all of us have a limited time here on Earth, we look to others to teach us what we don't already know, so we can save our time to think up new applictions of thoughts instead of ones that already exist.


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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partly yes like a robot [Re: Alan Stone]
    #3578443 - 01/04/05 09:08 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Everything is attitude. postures methods, routines, expressions, perceptions.

There are clear and obvious benefits to a dignified compassionate attitude. Perfecting it is a life's work. Attitude becomes the structure to hang the rest of your mind and life from.

I am coming to find Tourette syndrome an area of profound interest ( TS is an inherited, neurological disorder characterized by repeated involuntary movements and uncontrollable vocal sounds called tics. In a few cases, such tics can include inappropriate words and phrases.)

It seems that a part of the mind which is active in combining and matching experience with reccollection - some synesthesic expression is combined in an out of control way. (this includes the robot and the not-robot in tight balletic reparte)

Tourettes people are more nakedly processing life. Mindless robots? I think not. We see intensity honesty and some of the mechanics exposed. I think we need to look at the naked mind and how an individual creates their own synthesis of experience. For that I think Tourettes is a rich area, also entheogens.

As for learning how to walk and be good - that life's work - good habits - is framework programming for the mechanical part of mind and a vantage point for the not mechanical part.


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Anonymous

Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3578631 - 01/04/05 10:19 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You seem to have misunderstood my point. You should do something only because you want to. You shouldn't do something just because you assumed the originator of the idea is an expert in certain affairs (ie. Jesus as the spokesperson for the One True God) and thus it seemed like a good idea as a result of their influence.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: ]
    #3578797 - 01/04/05 11:11 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

how would you know tr-hey are yours? :P


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Disclaimer!?


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Gomp]
    #3579763 - 01/04/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hold up your finger....
imagine a tiny sphere levitating just above it...
move your finger around...
now stop.
that sphere on top of your finger, is the center of the universe, becuase the universe expands infinitely in time and space, so any point in the universe at any given time is the center, becuase there is no end.
but can there really be a center to something with no end.

frog, your such a thought stealing robot!
damn you and your books, books are for robots.




and then i think i thought i saw an azwethinkweis....
looking like we think we do.


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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InvisiblePaou
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Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 376
Loc: Transcendence
Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3579813 - 01/04/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Everyone here is speaking the same language!  Damn you conformist sheep! :pottymouth:


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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: Paou]
    #3580485 - 01/04/05 06:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

mucho el bueno, por favor


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OfflineMixomatosis
great ape

Registered: 10/28/03
Posts: 1,306
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Re: Only have your own thoughts!!! [Re: ]
    #3581960 - 01/05/05 12:24 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You seem to have misunderstood my point.
Well, more that the way you expressed yourself left your point wiiide open to interpretation, so I left it as it was, narrowly interpreted it, and then started a thread based on it.


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