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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3563236 -

Mushmonkey writes:

Here in Pennsylvania we have an 18% tax on all liquor (by the bottle). It's the Johnstown flood relief fund -- I believe it was 1936.
Obviously they no longer recieve the money. It was put on the books with the intentions of removing it after $50 million had been raised, and in fact.. it was initially only 10%. Over the years, they decided to keep the tax, raise it to 18%, and the money now goes into the general state coffers.

It's a lot worse than that. The Johnstown flood was in 1889. That's 115 years ago. That's one hell of a lot more money than fifty million bucks.



pinky


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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Tao]
    #3563308 -

TaoTeChing writes:

its thoughts like this that sicken me about the conservative viewpoint, the idea that you would feel the desire to inflict bodily pain upon someone over losing a small bit of fucking money. its just money.

And it's thoughts like this which make conservatives shake their heads in disbelief at liberals. Do liberals not grasp the connection between money and one's life? To take by force some of my money is to take by force some of my life.

Money is not "just money". Money is productive human effort concretized. No more, no less. I expended time (and of course effort) in order to obtain that money. Time that I can never recover. Since we are all mortal, we have only so much time available to us. What's worse, only some of that time can be spent acquiring money. You can't work as an infant or as an old person. You can't work while you're sleeping. The average person living in the West today has at most a hundred thousand hours of earning time available to them. That's less than twelve years out of your entire lifespan.

Every dollar taken from me against my will is time stolen from me. Time that's gone forever.



pinky


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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Phred]
    #3566159 -

See http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=6576


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http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/store/artist/album/0,,308577,00.html

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Pali_Gap]
    #3566166 -

Go away, Great_Satan.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: silversoul7]
    #3566259 -

I'm a DEA agent.


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http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/store/artist/album/0,,308577,00.html

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Phred]
    #3566676 -

Money is not "just money". Money is productive human effort concretized.

Money is not as concrete as you make it out to be. Money is rather a symbol of wealth, a symbol which is not tied only to an single individuals production, but to the success of a network of individuals.

In a hypothetical situation, lets assume that the United States decides to adopt a completely capitalistic policy. Following this the education rate plummets and the economy takes a nose dive. Soon the dollar is valued at 1/4 of its original level. Lets also assume that I have 1,000,000 dollars of "concrete" wealth stashed in my mattress. The drop in currency will cause me to lose 750,000 or 3/4 of my earning time. This is a result that lies completely outside of a single individuals control, yet still can result in the same consequence.

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: DeepDish]
    #3567084 -

Nonetheless, money is productive human effort concretized. In this context, the term "concretized" means "made tangible" as opposed to "set in stone".

You are of course correct that currency is not wealth in and of itself but rather a convenient intermediate step for the exchange of wealth. To be more precise I should have said that wealth is human effort concretized.

Some forms of currency (i.e. precious metals) hold their value better than others (i.e. fiat paper dollars). If countries still adhered to the gold standard there wouldn't be such a problem. But even with gold, there can be fluctuations (up AND down) over time in the amount of wealth a bar of gold represents.

In a hypothetical situation, lets assume that the United States decides to adopt a completely capitalistic policy. Following this the education rate plummets and the economy takes a nose dive.

Why would the education rate plummet? Even assuming it did, why would the existence of a higher percentage of less educated people cause the dollar to drop?

Why would you stash a million bucks of fiat currency in your mattress? I would have thought someone capable of amassing a million bucks would know better than that.

But all of this has nothing to do with my point -- the fact that many people of the liberal persuasion can so casually remark, "It's just money," as they seize it from you to further their own ends.


pinky


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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: DeepDish]
    #3569553 -

The US does have a capitalistic policy. However, people willingly give money through taxes that are voted on to fund education because it is an important part of society. This is the real problem with the current liberal way of thinking, they think that society will only function if money and possessions are taken from people unwillingly and redistributed, but that is simply not true. Everyone, the rich and the poor, have a stake in society and in some ways the "wealthy" (ie. property owners) have the highest stake and have a responsibility to ensure the success of our society. That's how capitalism works. I may have an unpopular opinion but i think that socialism is the truly greedy policy because you just have a bunch of people who think that they are somehow entitled to others hard earned money and property.

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3571847 -

Bush just gave 3 billion in FEMA relief to Florida, 15 million is an insult, I agree.


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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3571909 -

Look at my post in the "Good old U.S...."

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3572101 -

I wonder if the UN cares that the US government was set up to protect the rights of US citizenry, not to steal from them to provide for others. Charity is great, theft isn't.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: SoopaX]
    #3572117 -

The USA is so broke. The people here are poor. No healthcare for over 60% of us. The dollar is worth less and less. We have no industry. The Government is in debt trillions of dollars. And the UN calls us stingey. Of course the UN gave ZERO relief dollars of its own.


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http://www.sacredshrooms.org

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: mabus]
    #3572164 -

and if the US was so stingy, I bet we'd kick the UN's freeloading ass out of NYC and tell them to find somewhere else to house them for free. blar.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3572229 -

When the UN bent over and took the US's dick when that hellhole Iraq got invaded I lost hope in it. Kick the UN out for owed rent. Cheaper whore's are out there. The "Global Nations of Earth" GNE would have swallowed for free, and sent GNE troops to Iraq, and donated a few million to the tsunami relief.


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http://www.sacredshrooms.org

Edited by mabus (01/02/05 07:51 PM)

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3573527 -

Donated more than any other nation, and it's "stingy".


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: SoopaX]
    #3573738 -

The US donated money we don't have. Anyone can do that. We sent military ships. You know how stupid that sounds to rich nations? Especially since we are attacking iraq? And we send military ships? What do you think an aircraft carrier will do to help out? Tell me....


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http://www.sacredshrooms.org

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: mabus]
    #3573743 -

We are a poor ass country. I'm ashamed of what bush has made of the usa. He has ruined the usa. Germany and Sweden and Denmark out shine us. How ashamed I am. Our dollars are worth crap, our system is not humane. Our country needs to hide our face in WAR. We are idiots. Treat us as so. Do not fall into the trap bush has set, or you too will be caught. You have been warned by mabus, whom else must warn you.


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http://www.sacredshrooms.org

Edited by mabus (01/03/05 02:20 AM)

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: mabus]
    #3574379 -

Quote:
We are a poor ass country.


:tongue2:

compared to the countries that just got fucked by a 30ft wave?

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: silversoul7]
    #3574659 -

What sickens me about the liberal viewpoint is they equate compassion with spending money forcefully taken from other people.

Yes. I've never heard of anyone left destitute by taxes (unless it was through their own stupidity/irresponsibility) but lots of people have been saved by tax funded programs.

How much did you personally donate to help the tsunami victims, silversoul?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: United Nations official called U.S. Aid "STINGY" [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3574847 -

On the one hand, it is sad that they spent several times more on Clinton's sex scandal trial than on relief for such a terrible disaster. On the other hand, screw you guys, I pay enough taxes as it is!


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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