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OfflineShroominator
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Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 107
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
What REALLY happens?
    #351722 - 06/30/01 12:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I'm just curious...what's REALLY happening in your body when you're tripping? I don't mean "disconnection of mind from body...ego death", etc., I mean the proven scientific facts of what chemical reactions are happening in the body.

What negative effects would one have if he/she ate 3 grams of mushies once every week? What chemistry in the body would change? I know it's got *something* to do with dopamine and ceratonin...I'm no scientist, so help me out here?

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively..."


--------------------
"This delightful and singular state... This acuteness of thought, this enthusiasm of the senses and the spirit must have appeared to man through the ages as the first blessing."


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Offlinehatter
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Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 501
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Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Shroominator]
    #351760 - 06/30/01 01:32 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Certainly brain chemistry would...when you trip your neurotransmitters get 'crosstalk'...kind of like fitting the square peg into the round hole, along with a star, a pyramid, an octogon, a rhombus, a pentagon and a bunch of other shit(all analogies for the various chemicals that you discussed among others)...

My hypothesis is that once your mind knows that your brain is actually capable of doing something like that, that it occasionally will try to 'reconnect', so to speak, in certain circumstances...thus the flashback. I believe that it works in a similar manner to deja vu...

Also, I don't have any scientific literature to back me up on this but I would suspect that serotonin release would be inhibited rather than prompted due to the generally good mindset I feel several days after tripping...quite different than Ecstacy IMO(suicide Tues. type shit)...Endorphins I'm sure are probably all over the map, and I guess dopamine would be affected somewhat due to tolerance buildup, but not nearly to the extent of other drugs I would think(ie heroin and coke)...

Physically, I don't think that anything particular occurs...probably not top choice of the liver, but I doubt half the other shit we eat is either...

How is a raven like a writing desk?

How deep is the rabbit hole? To find out, go.to/FreeSporeRing

Edited by hatter on 06/30/01 01:41 AM.



--------------------
How is a raven like a writing desk?

How deep is the rabbit hole? To find out, go.to/FreeSporeRing


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Offlinealuminum_can
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Registered: 05/18/01
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Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Shroominator]
    #352684 - 07/01/01 11:23 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

i heard that shrooms make youre brain think that youre dying and its your last few hours to live and its youre happy hours or something like that. my theory is that the psilocybin and psilocin in shrooms (magic) is a self defense mechanism that the shroom developed over its evolution to ward off animal. just think if you were an animal of no inteligence and you ate that shroom cus you were hungry!!! i think that animal wouldnt do it again!! but we are intelligent and can enjoy the poison but thats the reason bad trips are so common and so horrible. so all you new trippers out there need to STAY AWAY FROM THE BROWN ACID!!!! or youll end up thinking like me.

hey, you got to be genuine thats the name of this game. if you're real, then you aint got nothing to worry about, but if youre synthetic then starting tomorrow you're balls come off!


--------------------
the little kridders of nature; they dont know that thyre ugly!



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OfflinePotSmokinHippie
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Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 223
Loc: New york
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Shroominator]
    #352870 - 07/02/01 09:06 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Well, that's a question that we don't have a complete picture of, because we still don't know everything about the neurotransmitters that are manipulated when you're tripping.

Basically what we know happens in the brain has to mainly do with the neurotransmitter serotonin. Serotonin is a chemical that is similar to all indole ring chemicals (LSD, psilocybin etc). When these chemicals similar to serotonin enter the brain, it gets confused. Serotonin normally attatches itself to receptor sites in the brain to ensure normal transmission of nerve impulses. Well your brain thinks that LSD or whatever is seratonin, so it goes ahead and lets these chemicals attatch to the receptor sites where serotonin is supposed to be. Well once your brain metabolizes the LSD (its for the most part out of your system completely before you feel anything) your brain has developed a hypersensitivity to serotonin. Its not really the LSD that gets you high, its your brain's serotonin.

I don't think that it would have any negative effects, exept maybe making the whole tripping experience a little dull. There have never been any reports of the neurotoxicity of LSD or psilocybin.

Dopamine dosen't have mush to do with shrooms or acid, dopamine is the stuff that gets all out of whack with phenethylamines (sp?) and related chemicals, like mescaline, 2C-B and 2C-T-7.

The thing people don't realize is that lions are very kind and gentle creatures, until they try to rip your head off.


--------------------
"assumption is the mother of all fuckup" - me


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: PotSmokinHippie]
    #352970 - 07/02/01 02:57 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> Well once your brain metabolizes the LSD (its for the most part out of your system completely before you feel anything) your brain has developed a hypersensitivity to serotonin. Its not really the LSD that gets you high, its your brain's serotonin.

Not really. I think it has more to do with the LSD seriously altering the way your neurons are firing than altering a neuroreceptor's reaction to serotonin. Remember that while on LSD or mushrooms, the brain's serotonin levels are extremely low (which is why people have such bizzare mood swings and difficulty concentrating on LSD).



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OfflineNagual
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 316
Loc: nyc, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353026 - 07/02/01 05:51 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

I have to disagree with you kid, when i take acid i tend
to become less emotional, or aloof, and acid
sharpens your perceptions, its like a mental microscope
the way it reveals levels within levels.
For me its like LSD gives the mind so much to play with
there isnt time to get 'moody'.

....___^___
...(_______)
........|.|Free
...__ /../..Spore
...|__ / ......Ring


--------------------
.....___^___
....(_______)
........|...|Free
...__ /.../..Spore
...|___ / .....Ring


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InvisibleHydro
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Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 402
Loc: In your closet..
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353074 - 07/02/01 08:33 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Yah, I have to agree with Nagual. When I'm on acid, I feel like I'm using 90% of my brainpower. Concentration is the #1 element in trippin'. I become a super power problem-solving computer being. I could learn physics in 8 hours with the use of acid. hehe ;-) People say things seem to move in slow motion when they trip. When I trip, everything around me slows down, yet I do not. I keep moving on at a normal pace. This is what makes driving, playing an instrument, etc... so much easier on psychedelics. Your reaction time is enhanced ten fold. The thing my buddies and me always loved about acid was this. Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? On acid you can hop on one foot, rub your head in a circle, write a few notes down on a piece of paper while talking about something completely different to the guy next to you, as you are changing the station your watching on tv with your toes from your free foot. Ok, maybe that's a little extreme, but your concentration is just enhanced soooo much. I notice when walking through crowds of people, normally you would hear a jumbled noise from everyone talking, but on psychedelics you can listen in to 10 conversations at once pointing out how many people are discussing what and keep track of all the information as if your listening to it one by one. Fucking amazing!

I know a lot of people get confused and just can't do jack shit while they are trippin', I get like this on really high doses, but when you focus your concentration and use your mind, you amaze the shit out of yourself! ;-)

Ok, I will stop rambling on now... hehe

I think I might go write up a shit load of trip reports now. I have been inspired! hehe ;-)

Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!

Edited by Hydro on 07/02/01 08:36 PM.



--------------------
Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!


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OfflineGrimace
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 161
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Hydro]
    #353079 - 07/02/01 08:44 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

It's about fusion. It's about quantum physics. It's about DNA. You guys are thinking on a level which you are trying to visualize your understanding. What reaction to your body when you take hallucinogenic drugs happens on another level. When observed, things change. It's science, yet it's truthfull. Tripping doesn't differ between individuals because of the drug. It differs because of the individuals readiness, or lack of. All of this is of course, in essence and just scratching the scratch on another scratches surface.

Grimace

"Is there anyway of knowing........which direction we are going?!! Yes!"
Mr. Wonka


--------------------
"Is there anyway of knowing........which direction we are going?!! Yes!"
Mr. Wonka


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OfflineGrimace
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Registered: 04/05/00
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Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Grimace]
    #353080 - 07/02/01 08:48 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

My last post made no sense what-so-ever. It's the alcohol. I know what I'm trying to say though. It's just a bunch of mixed observations from my microbiology and neural psychology classes. College is a bitch.

Grim

"Is there anyway of knowing........which direction we are going?!! Yes!"
Mr. Wonka


--------------------
"Is there anyway of knowing........which direction we are going?!! Yes!"
Mr. Wonka


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InvisibleHydro
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Registered: 03/31/01
Posts: 402
Loc: In your closet..
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Grimace]
    #353082 - 07/02/01 08:55 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> All of this is of course, in essence and just scratching the scratch on another scratches surface.

I like that... ;-)

Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!


--------------------
Hydro has spoken!
Please! Tell me about the fucking golf shoes!


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353093 - 07/02/01 09:54 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Difficulty concentrating doesn't necessarily mean that you're focus isn't sharper. I see difficulty concentrating as a problem in holding your attention on one subject; not as a bluring of the mental lens. So, I'll half-agree and half-disagree with your statement.



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InvisibleKid
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Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Hydro]
    #353096 - 07/02/01 10:00 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> When I'm on acid, I feel like I'm using 90% of my brainpower

When you're sleeping you're still using 100% of your brain.

Also, just because you **FEEL** that you're using more brainpower doesn't mean you are.

> I become a super power problem-solving computer being.

I'd like to see you solve quartic equations while on LSD.
NOTE: ^(number) = raised to the power of

solve for x while on LSD

2x^4 - 9x^3 + 14x^2 - 9x + 2 = 0

> This is what makes driving, playing an instrument, etc... so much easier on psychedelics.

So, therefor, you'd feel safer driving on the autobahn on a few hits of LSD than sober?

That's sounds like excellent reasoning which would bring you a Darwin Award.

> Your reaction time is enhanced ten fold.

Incorrect. Studies have shown that reaction time is delayed while under the influence of LSD.



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OfflineNagual
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 316
Loc: nyc, USA
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353114 - 07/02/01 11:18 PM (15 years, 5 months ago)

Kid:blahblahblahblahnoyourewrongblahblahblah

....___^___
...(_______)
........|.|Free
...__ /../..Spore
...|__ / ......Ring

Edited by Nagual on 07/02/01 11:23 PM.



--------------------
.....___^___
....(_______)
........|...|Free
...__ /.../..Spore
...|___ / .....Ring


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Nagual]
    #353132 - 07/03/01 12:48 AM (15 years, 5 months ago)

> Kid:blahblahblahblahnoyourewrongblahblahblah

Very good.



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OfflineMaxawow
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 188
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353474 - 07/12/01 04:43 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

There is some scientific evidence to show that there is indeed higher amounts of brain activity or more electrical signals going off at once while under the influence of psychedelics. So in a sense you could look at it as if you're using more of your brain. But that doesnt mean you're going to all of a sudden be able to solve great big math problems, unless of course you are already a mathmetition to begin with. Neither will you be able all of a sudden be able to play the piano if you've never been taught. But if you already are skilled at a certain thing, then maybe psychedelics might help you to be more fluent at it, but I think that the results will vary quite a bit. I think that these drugs can effect you in so many different ways that its hard to put it into a simple picture. In some areas it might actually increase intelligence while in other areas it might also decrease it.

Kid, you really should stop acting like a little "know it all" asshole. Most of the posts I've read or yours really stink.


---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


--------------------
---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


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InvisibleKid
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Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Maxawow]
    #353542 - 07/12/01 09:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> Kid, you really should stop acting like a little "know it all" asshole. Most of the posts I've read or yours really stink.


Fuck you. I'm just trying to open up other points of view. Don't give me a hard time about the "tone" of my posts.


Just think about this: would you trust yourself to drive (a well learned motor activity) on LSD? No, that would be stupid.

Walk a tightrope? Anything where you require full mental functioning where safety is involved? No, that would be really poor judgement, plain and simple.

The thing about people saying more of their brain is in use seems absolutely ridiculous to me. Your brain cells are functioning as long as you are alive. They don't sit there not doing anything.

> There is some scientific evidence to show that there is indeed higher amounts of brain activity or more electrical signals going off at once while under the influence of psychedelics.

And there's a lot of scientific evidence to show that people having seizures have a hell of a lot of electrical activity going on in the brain. That doesn't make it a good thing.

Another analogy is people with Tourette's syndrome. People with Tourette's syndrome typically say (when treated, in comparison with normality) that having Tourette's makes them feel a lot faster. They say that their mind's are moving astonishingly fast. Many Touretters are attracted to spinning things (eg// some like revolving doors, because they like whipping in and out of them, because it makes them feel fast). It's also been described as being at the whim of a kaleidescope of amplified perceptions (sound familiar?) and impulses. But, look at a person with Tourette's syndrome? Would you believe for a second that this person is smarter, more adept, more able to live a happy life than someone with normal brain chemistry? I think not. Get over it, psychedelic drugs don't enhance performance.



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OfflineLevi7
old hand
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 652
Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353652 - 07/12/01 01:01 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

You've got good points! But still, you're a know-it-all asshole! You'll probably consider that a compliment!
Stay cool, anyway!-Levi7.



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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Levi7]
    #353724 - 07/12/01 03:09 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

peter stafford & bonnie golightly:
LSD: the problem solving psychedelic
...well, properly utilized, it may be that the lsd state can be used to facilitate the learning/reasoning/intuitive process(es)...
... mmmm, aztec basketball on shrooms --- play your very best, because the winning team has the honor of being human sacrifice...
...john lilly in the float tank, doing metaprogramming on the deep self...
stan grof, using lsd or cz-74 to help his patients solve the secrets of their unhappiness & plumb the depths of the psyche...
~~~
"break on through to the other side..."
~~~
reboot...



--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineMaxawow
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 188
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Kid]
    #353813 - 07/12/01 06:12 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Kid, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you. But what I am saying is there is probably more to it than that. Did you not read everything I said? that In some areas it "might" actually increase intelligence while in other areas it might also decrease it.
And I also said that I think that these drugs can effect you in so many different ways that its hard to put it into a simple picture.

> And there's a lot of scientific evidence to show that people having seizures have a hell of a lot of electrical activity going on in the brain. That doesn't make it a good thing.

No shit.

>When you're sleeping you're still using 100% of your brain.

There are higher amounts of brain activity going on while you're conscious and awake. I dont think your dumb enough to agrue with that.

You seem very one sided on this issue, closed off to the other possibilities. You might have few good points but you dont have it all figured out. There is more to it then you or I fully understand.

---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


--------------------
---Its like being stoned in 3-D!


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: What REALLY happens? [Re: Shroominator]
    #354267 - 07/13/01 04:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I remember reading an essay somewhere about the postulated mechenisms of LSD. Was a good read. I think it was linked to on Erowid somewhere. Go find it.

-----------------------
You, too, can become a Sideburn Wearing Drug Buddy.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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