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OfflinePoopShooter
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Manic Depression and Mushrooms
    #3395600 - 11/22/04 10:30 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

I was wondering if manic depression (or bipolar, whatever it's called now) could inhibit the affects of psilocybin. I'm really not sure what the clinical causes of depression are, but I do know that psilocybin "mimics" seratonin. If the seratonin is not present, or your body is used to lower amounts of seratonin, due to depression, does this mean that your body does not pickup the psilocybin as well?

That is, will the nerves be able to pick up as much psilocybin in a manically depressed person's body, as they would in a "normal" person's body, and would the cause be because of lowered seratonin levels? Would someone who once was afflicted with manic depression, who tripped, have a stronger trip after that manic depression was cured?


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: PoopShooter]
    #3395612 - 11/22/04 10:31 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

AFAIK, there should be no affect on the absorption of psilocybin from bipolar disorder, unless you are currently on any meds.


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OfflinePoopShooter
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: dblaney]
    #3395771 - 11/22/04 11:04 PM (12 years, 17 days ago)

Interesting...I ask, because I used to trip, and used to be depressed, and it really took a lot of mushrooms to get my to a level that most people would get from much less. They weren't weak, or anything, either, which was my first thought. Some were homegrown (AFOF), and some bought from friends. All were around the same potency. Recently, I've been MUCH less depressed, and plan on tripping soon. I was wondering if I should compenate my dosage for this, or just do my normal 5+ grams.

By the way, out of curiousty, can someone give me a down and dirty cause of bipolar disorder? If there is such a thing, anyway.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: PoopShooter]
    #3396838 - 11/23/04 04:06 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

there are many things that can cause a bipolar disorder, even genetic...

my advidse is don't tripp if you are depressed; feelings get amplified so that could be bad


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Anonymous

Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: stefan]
    #3396869 - 11/23/04 04:20 AM (12 years, 17 days ago)

dont worry, be happy :smile: :heart:  as long as u do the shrooms for the right reason, i see no reason not to shroom.  they could help if you reflect on why you are so depressed, then your soul will shine through and you will feel gods love and that should be more than enough to bring you out of your depression.  he loves you. :heart:


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OfflineSilven
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: PoopShooter]
    #3397257 - 11/23/04 08:51 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

PoopShooter, I have been experiencing the same tolerance problem.

My friends could be in the corner talking to a light shade and I'm still on the couch just thinking, very rationally, and not deeply lost in thought.

It's like I get barely any visuals compared to what some of my friends will describe after eating them and I don't get the mental stimulation. Now, if I take over 5 grams like I did last thursday I can get tripping, but I'm thinking it's going to take 7 to 10 to get me up to the plane I really enjoy.

Please note my tolerance isn't from taking mushrooms a lot. I space my trips out usually two weeks at a time. I might be waiting a month this time since my last trip was a kind of bad one.

I think my problem may be mindset. Perhaps yours is too?


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: ]
    #3397357 - 11/23/04 09:54 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Kottonmouth:
Quote:

they could help if you reflect on why you are so depressed




Bipolar Disorder (Manic-Depressive Illness) is a disease(like Alzheimer or aids) and there is no psychological cause for a depression. Mushrooms won't help you to find out why because there is no why! Mushrooms won't help you to figure out why you have Alzheimer either.

Quote:

then your soul will shine through and you will feel gods love and that should be more than enough to bring you out of your depression.




Not true at all. Depressed(bipolar) people feel depressed because there is something chemically 'wrong'(or different) in their brain. Mushrooms are no medicine against depression as far as I know.

Quote:

as long as u do the shrooms for the right reason, i see no reason not to shroom.




I don't agree. The reason why you trip is no guarantee for a trip that won't cause you more mental problems.


Poopshooter:
Quote:

I'm really not sure what the clinical causes of depression are




Bipolar Disorder (Manic-Depressive Illness) is the disease that 'causes' the depression. That's all they know... We don't know much about our brain and Manic Depression.

Quote:

If the serotonin is not present, or your body is used to lower amounts of serotonin, due to depression, does this mean that your body does not pickup the psilocybin as well?

That is, will the nerves be able to pick up as much psilocybin in a manically depressed person's body, as they would in a "normal" person's body, and would the cause be because of lowered serotonin levels? Would someone who once was afflicted with manic depression, who tripped, have a stronger trip after that manic depression was cured?





I don't know and I think nobody knows. The human brain is the most complex thing in our known universe. We still can't cure Manic Depressive Illness. It's treatable but we can't cure it. What do you mean by cured? Are you Manic Depressive?

I know someone who is Bipolar and he was very sensitive for mushrooms when he was depressed (1,5g = level 5+).

Silven:
Quote:

Please note my tolerance isn't from taking mushrooms a lot. I space my trips out usually two weeks at a time.




I think you will build up little tolerance if you trip every two weeks. I've heard that tripping once a month can build up tolerance.


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: stefan]
    #3397449 - 11/23/04 10:35 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

stefan said:
there are many things that can cause a bipolar disorder, even genetic...

my advidse is don't tripp if you are depressed; feelings get amplified so that could be bad




i agree


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Anonymous

Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: Annom]
    #3397602 - 11/23/04 11:30 AM (12 years, 16 days ago)

ya know what?  fuck it. :smirk:

i admit the advice i gave was irresponsible.  i typed up a shitload many times, deleted, type it up again, deleted. i just cant help you on the internet like this because my words are left empty in meaning on here.


Edited by Anonymous (11/23/04 11:53 AM)


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: ]
    #3397741 - 11/23/04 12:13 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

lol, whatever dude, you believe what you will, the soul overpowers the body 100 to nothing, if you want it to, but if you want to stay stuck in the illusion that you absolutely must live held down from feeling your true nature(which is one of joy and compassion) than that is your choice. now im sure you cant comprehend, as you believe the physical dominates, but thats an illusion.




That's your believe and I respect that. Psychedelics(and common sense) have shown me that we can't trust our feelings or perception of reality to tell what's true or not. The Scientific Method is the best way yet discovered for winnowing the truth from lies and delusion.

Quote:

but with the ego consuming us so much to the point we have a disease, its gonna take some ego softening to shine through the thick darkness you've created yourself.




I respect your believe, but I think it's not fair to tell people with Cancer, Aids or Bipolar Disorder that they can get cured by the soul. That's a big illusion. It has never been done and I don't see a reason why you would think it could be done. It has nothing to do with softening the ego or what you really want.

Quote:

their always going to come up short and assume there is nothing to help




Go to a hospital and look what good things the scientifc method has given us. Give me one example were they come up and assume there is nothing to help?


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Offlinedave5264
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: Annom]
    #3398215 - 11/23/04 02:18 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

perhaps there is some problem with your serotonin receptor sites (that sounds really awkward for some reason)

then they would respond less to both the chemicals that are supposed to keep you happy and hallucinogens

my therory is that your tolerance will not change


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Offlinehuxmush
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: PoopShooter]
    #3399461 - 11/23/04 06:40 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

PoopShooter said:
I was wondering if manic depression (or bipolar, whatever it's called now) could inhibit the affects of psilocybin. I'm really not sure what the clinical causes of depression are, but I do know that psilocybin "mimics" seratonin. If the seratonin is not present, or your body is used to lower amounts of seratonin, due to depression, does this mean that your body does not pickup the psilocybin as well?

That is, will the nerves be able to pick up as much psilocybin in a manically depressed person's body, as they would in a "normal" person's body, and would the cause be because of lowered seratonin levels? Would someone who once was afflicted with manic depression, who tripped, have a stronger trip after that manic depression was cured?




Given that the medical profession as a whole is still trying to work exactly how seratonin works / affects mood etc. even without introducing other drugs / mental illnesses into the picture I don't think you'll get an accurate answer at all, aside from the fact that hallucinogens can tend to amplify your emotional state. There's very little formal research because psilocybin is hard to obtain and/or study legally.

I also wouldn't say it 'mimics' seratonin - more the case that its 'compatible' or can interact with receptor sites in the brain that seratonin also binds to.

My previous 3-4 trips excluding the last one were what you'd consider bad or negative experiences despite continually decreasing the dosage each time.. I was somewhat reluctant to try it again, despite the amazing first 3 or 4 times.

That being said, it seems like I'm a lightweight when it comes to psilocybin - I get significant visuals in the 1-1.5g. [dried, cubenisis] range, and ego-loss happening at 2.5g+

After much deliberation recently, I finally started taking Fluoxetine given ongoing dysthymia and a recent major depressive episode. It has helped quite a lot, along with increase in exercise and reduction in caffeine intake, and also given me the courage to try a low dose of mushrooms again.

NB: - I'm not bi-polar - I've never had a manic episode.

For that one trip I've had since, The fluoxetine I've been taking hasn't affected their potency in either direction, although I suspect that the positive slant its been giving me may have helped result in a positive, enjoyable trip - was much more able to go with the flow and feel comfortable that I'd get back to 'normal'.

Further information on anti-depressants and their interaction with hallucinogenics can be found here at erowid. - some increase reactions, and some decrease them.

To answer your question, in my limited experience, it hasn't made things stronger or weaker for me, but I expect the general answer is yes and no and sometimes. Different people can have a natuarally high or low tolerance to drugs even if they're not depressed. Add depression and possibly anti-depressants into the mix and you probably stretch both ends of the scale...


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Anonymous

Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: huxmush]
    #3399954 - 11/23/04 08:45 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

The Scientific Method is the best way yet discovered for winnowing the truth from lies and delusion.




perhaps this is where the problem lies. ignorance? we do not know everything...but some of us are slowly getting to realizing a bigger picture.

Quote:

Go to a hospital and look what good things the scientifc method has given us. Give me one example were they come up and assume there is nothing to help?




very true. but what i meant is an absolute cure, not just "help", sorry about that.  as for you saying its never been done that we havent healed ourselves of cancer and other diseases....thats not true at all.  People have been cured of their cancer up out of no where and without explaination(not a physical one :wink: ) Only that they know they prayed/asked god to heal them.  not a coincidence.

i respect you too, and i think that this is getting to be a good discussion.  you just have to understand that i am a bit fucked up of a human being to be in this world...im too new agey to be understood by many. and u'll have to excuse me if i sound a bit out there, but im just speaking from my heart. and i know we can heal ourselves of ANYTHING, because we are god(many are too afraid to accept this). but the main reason i see that we dont, is because we arent aware of our abilities, they are veiled, and the fear jakes hurls us deeper away from truth of who we truly are.

but the body isnt completely useless, obviously, its just that they(medical professionals) dont know of the power of the spiritual as far as healing goes.  all that needs to be done is the soul needs to be awakened from 'sleep'(which the body has to be able to function with spirit too in order to even come out of deep 'sleep').  and become aware of its power, and we can do miraculous things that have no explaination in a physical sense. i know becuase ive done it.  shouldnt one be dead and gone once you are actually dead? why do people survive and come back when they should clearly be dead?  because WE(our higherself residing within this body) can heal ANYTHING with its light/love.

i know, i realize that this spiritual hoo haa is completely worthless without any knowledge of it, and thats all right.  we'll all see the light one day. :heart:


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OfflinelePage
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: ]
    #3400500 - 11/23/04 10:38 PM (12 years, 16 days ago)

ive been on anti depressants for the past 8 months and can say that the last 2 times i did shrooms (while on the meds) it sucked. the effects were really mild with no visuals, overall i wouldnt say it was enjoyable. but it couldve been shitty shrooms, cause the friend i did them with wasnt really tripping either.
the drug im on is remeron and i read on erowid that it blocks receptors in the brain that mushrooms act on (http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=3057). but on the other hand i was reading someones post on here about being on remeron and a number of other pharm drugs and he/she tripped on shrooms with crazy visuals.

i dont think its a good idea to do any pyschedelics if ur depressed, u gotta have the right state of mind. im not saying if ur diagnosed with depression ull never be able to have a good time on drugs, but u have to have a positive attitude before u do them, IMO a hy is fueled by ur emotions.


Edited by lePage (11/24/04 05:01 PM)


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: ]
    #3423769 - 11/29/04 05:57 PM (12 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

very true. but what i meant is an absolute cure, not just "help", sorry about that. as for you saying its never been done that we havent healed ourselves of cancer and other diseases....thats not true at all. People have been cured of their cancer up out of no where and without explaination(not a physical one  ) Only that they know they prayed/asked god to heal them. not a coincidence.




True. That's called spontaneous remission of cancer. There is not yet a physical explanation, but I do believer there is a psychical explanation. Everything that can interact with the material world is part of the material word. Many people with cancer pray to god, why would god only help some of them? And why would god only help people who pray? Why would you even need to pray to god? Is he such as bastard that he only helps those who believe in 'him'?

Quote:

but the main reason i see that we dont, is because we arent aware of our abilities, they are veiled, and the fear jakes hurls us deeper away from truth of who we truly are.




You cant see this. Why would I believe you instead of thousands of other new age/spiritual theories? They are all different! Should I trust my feelings on this? Many people do and they all come up with different theories. Science is the only 'believe' that is different and based on something else IMHO.

Quote:

all that needs to be done is the soul needs to be awakened from 'sleep'(which the body has to be able to function with spirit too in order to even come out of deep 'sleep'). and become aware of its power, and we can do miraculous things that have no explaination in a physical sense. i know becuase ive done it. 




Can you tell me what you've done? I'm really curious and serious interested.

Quote:

shouldnt one be dead and gone once you are actually dead? why do people survive and come back when they should clearly be dead? because WE(our higherself residing within this body) can heal ANYTHING with its light/love. 




People don't walk out of their graves. That's impossible. I'm sure there is a physical explanation for people coming back when they should clearly be dead. Isn't it far more interesting to search for the cause than to call it magic?

Quote:

i know, i realize that this spiritual hoo haa is completely worthless without any knowledge of it, and thats all right.




There is no knowledge of spiritual hoo haa IMO. It's not based on anything but fantasy and feelings. Mushrooms learned me that fantasy and feelings can't tell you what's real. It's all very subjective.





:heart:


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Anonymous

Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: Annom]
    #3425748 - 11/30/04 12:53 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

ah so this is where the rate came from :tongue:

Quote:

There is no knowledge of spiritual hoo haa IMO. It's not based on anything but fantasy and feelings. Mushrooms learned me that fantasy and feelings can't tell you what's real. It's all very subjective.




this tells me, 'dont even bother replying' :heart: nothing personal man...i wouldnt reply to anyone with this perception.  no amount of anything i have to say would persuade you to actually 'hear' me. your mind is made up.  :crazy:


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OfflineDastoner
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: PoopShooter]
    #3426169 - 11/30/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

If I read correctly you are trying to say mushrooms cure Manic Depression ? Well, I, being a diagnosed Manic Depressive and Emotionally Disturbed KNOW this isn't true. I have good days and I have bad days. You just dont eat them on the bad days. They dont "cure" manic depression lol, I find that kind of silly for you to say that.

Mabey you can have a nice experience that lets out some stress or somthing and makes you feel better... but Depression isn't somthing that just goes away.

I hope this helps


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: ]
    #3426504 - 11/30/04 03:50 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

this tells me, 'dont even bother replying' nothing personal man...i wouldnt reply to anyone with this perception. no amount of anything i have to say would persuade you to actually 'hear' me. your mind is made up. 




You look like the one who doesn't hear me.  'my mind is made up'.....  :ooo: :shocked: Thanks for telling me!

How will I ever know what the knowledge of spiritual things is if you can't explain it or give an example?


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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: Dastoner]
    #3426513 - 11/30/04 03:53 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

Do you have any experience with a mushrooms trip that triggered a manic period?


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OfflineDastoner
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Re: Manic Depression and Mushrooms [Re: Annom]
    #3426666 - 11/30/04 05:27 AM (12 years, 10 days ago)

No, I make sure that I have been having a good week etc etc. I have never had a bad trip(yet). Every time I trip its all smoothe and good :smile:


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