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Offlineprimal440
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Registered: 04/03/04
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Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis
    #3386544 - 11/20/04 06:04 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

According to you and not Erowid, what Trichocereus/Echinopsis family members are psychoactive? If its by first hand experience the better, and greater if these are to be found in southamerica, chile. Thanks in advance.


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: primal440]
    #3386568 - 11/20/04 06:11 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

You got a problem with erowid?


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Offlineprimal440
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: faslimy]
    #3386579 - 11/20/04 06:14 AM (18 years, 21 days ago)

what the shit is that for ana nswer? no I have nothing against Erowid but i don't think they always have first hand information. Erowid tho has helped me a lot but not on this.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: primal440]
    #3386783 - 11/20/04 07:15 AM (18 years, 20 days ago)

i would guess that the chilean trichocereus might be active as there are reports of ancient use of cacti in chile.
i have bought myself some t. chilensis varieties to grow from seed, they're pretty plants at worst.
(the one that looks like the peruvian torch, only with longer central needles)...
the ones with thick spines i would guess are less valuable...
but i'm guessing.


FH


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Offlineprimal440
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: felixhigh]
    #3388623 - 11/20/04 07:25 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

yeah i think its a scientific fact right now for t. chilensis, but I don't find that in an urban environment, and it must be quite difficult to get rid of all those nasty spines. I may have acquired a trichereus bridgesii or something like that. I will post a piture later if it helps.
Anyone any suggestions or comments?


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InvisibleM_S_Smith
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: felixhigh]
    #3388662 - 11/20/04 07:36 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

"Trout's Notes on Cactus Chemistry by Species" mentions Cortes et. al. 1972 as citing T. chilensis as having "no triterpenes or alkaloids" and "essentially devoid of alkaloids." Cortes found trace amounts of Candicine and B-Sitosterol. Agurell (1969) also found it devoid of alkaloids but, according to Trout " specifically did not look for quaternary amines like Candicine."

Chile doesn't have any Trichocereus known to be used ethnobotanically on their own (generally columnar Trichocereus don't grow there, rather the more proper Echinopsis and Lobivia speceis do), but T. atacamensis and T. atacamensis suspecies pasacana are believed to be used in llipta preparations for the absorbtion of coca alkaloids. T. atamamensis is from areas at the junction of Argentiana, Chile and Bolivia, and it seems unlikely that it had any ethnobotanical use in Chile as I am not aware of the traditional use of Erythroxylum species there. Subspecies pasacana comes from Argentina and Bolivia. Rainsticks have been made with the cores of subspecies pasacana.

I might suggest you order my book "Sacramental and Medicinal Cacti" to get a nice read on the ethnobotanical species of South America.

~Michael~


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Offlineprimal440
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: M_S_Smith]
    #3389091 - 11/20/04 09:25 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

thanks for that infor although i would say that rather than chile being devoid of psychoactive cactii better said is devoid of autoctonous cactii. I know a guy who claims having consumed T. Chilensis or some cactus very similar to that and having experienced quite noticably its effects. It is also listed in som sites as being psychoactive...
Anyways, I got some pcitures:









Here they are, they are blurry but in the ones that aren't you can appreciate the spines and all, in the other ones the shape. It was about 1 meter and a half when I cut it.


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Offlineethnobotany
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: primal440]
    #3389092 - 11/20/04 09:25 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

primal440 said:
what the shit is that for ana nswer? no I have nothing against Erowid but i don't think they always have first hand information. Erowid tho has helped me a lot but not on this.




Hahahahah What kind of answer was that man. lol


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Offlineprimal440
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: ethnobotany]
    #3389128 - 11/20/04 09:34 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

hehehe.

Should I repost this thread so I can get more looks and answers more quicklu? shit i need to know fast.


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: primal440]
    #3389185 - 11/20/04 09:48 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

That cactus looks pretty 'Trichy'...

I have once had a chilean friend who told me there was 'San Pedro' there and it got me quite surprised and wondering which would be the actual species...

I know they're not chile natives but i think it's likely we'll find T. peruvianus (trujilloensis?) in the chilean north and perhaps T. bridgesii on the chilean northeast...


FH


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Offlineprimal440
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: felixhigh]
    #3389208 - 11/20/04 09:55 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

actually, there's a lot of san pedros here, in the north, middle countries, even in the cities, as well as peruvianus and multitudes of other trichocereus.
Any idea of wha tkind of trichocereus this is and if its psychoactive?

according to erowid's list and this site:
http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Cactaceae/Trichocereus.html
I might have a Trichocereus Cuzcoensis, Macrogona or Validus. Maybe Bridgesii but the spines are too small?


Edited by primal440 (11/20/04 10:28 PM)


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: primal440]
    #3389575 - 11/20/04 11:56 PM (18 years, 20 days ago)

if they bear furry balls before they bloom then you're likely to have a trichocereus.
identifying cacti is not very easy without the flowers.

the pictures you showed look in no way like t. validus, more towards these t. chilensis  http://www.columnar-cacti.org/trichocereus/page2.html
or like this one i have which i am not sure of what it is:




FH :sun:


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InvisibleM_S_Smith
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Re: Psychoactive Trichocereus/Echinopsis [Re: felixhigh]
    #3389864 - 11/21/04 01:01 AM (18 years, 20 days ago)

The Desert-tropicals photo of T. cuzcoensis is wrong. It does not fit the botanical description of the plant from Britton & Rose, Backeberg, or Anderson. Even the T. cuzoensis at my friend Bob Ressler's Columnal-Cacti page doesn't fit the descriptions.

The T. macrogonus at Desert-Tropicals is also wrong. In fact the illustration of T. macrogonus there is not a Trichocereus at all, but rather a illustration of a Cereus species as can be seen by both the flower and fruit.

T. pachanoi may have been transplanted to Chile, but it is a northern Peruvian species. T. peruvianus var. trujilloensis is not even a Trichocereus at all, but rather a Rauhocereus riosaniensis. This "species" was once offered by "...otj," and has no standing in the botanical world. T. bridgesii is not native to Chile, but may, like T. pachanoi, have been transplanted there.

~Michael~


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