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Re: Ashcroft resigns-Gonzales named as successor [Re: z_x_x_z]
    #3343927 -

The AG nominee is Alberto Gonzales, so yes, it can get worse. Yes, THAT Alberto Gonzales, the guy who wrote the memo approving the torture in Abu Ghraib. The guy who dismissed the Geneva Conventions as "quaint." Dubya would have been hard put to find someone more offensive for AG than Ashcroft - and yet he has. He could not possibly have pulled a bigger turd out of his ass.

The memo has already gone out to the FBI: happy days are here again! It's not torture unless there's major organ failure, so beat the shit out of anyone who gets in your way. This nomination is an insult to the rule of law.


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Sarcasm just one of my many talents.


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Re: Ashcroft resigns-Gonzales named as successor [Re: LucidDream]
    #3346955 -

LucidDream said:
The AG nominee is Alberto Gonzales, so yes, it can get worse. Yes, THAT Alberto Gonzales, the guy who wrote the memo approving the torture in Abu Ghraib. The guy who dismissed the Geneva Conventions as "quaint." Dubya would have been hard put to find someone more offensive for AG than Ashcroft - and yet he has. He could not possibly have pulled a bigger turd out of his ass.
The memo has already gone out to the FBI: happy days are here again! It's not torture unless there's major organ failure, so beat the shit out of anyone who gets in your way. This nomination is an insult to the rule of law.


The Geneva Conventions are a crock and should not be followed by the letter. After all why follow a set of rules when your enemy couldn't give a shit about them. And they ban shotguns = retarded

And second torture is a key aspect of an counter-insurgency operation. The only mistake was not having high ranking officials who had a great deal to lose carry out the torture. Stupid morons taking pictures of it and then letting them getting out.....


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Why follow a set of rules? [Re: d33p]
    #3348917 -

Why follow a set of rules? Because until you torture and assassinate your POWs, the other side won't beat you to it. The rules are there to protect OUR troops, not theirs. It's not hard to figure out, but if you really don't get it, read ON KILLING: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society -- by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, (a former Ranger and now psychologist).

As to your second point: "torture is a key aspect of an counter-insurgency operation." Indeed it is. It is the point at which you convince your enemies to torture and kill any of your men they might capture. It is also the point at which an individual becomes liable for war crimes.


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Sarcasm just one of my many talents.


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Re: Why follow a set of rules? [Re: LucidDream]
    #3349366 -

LucidDream said:
Why follow a set of rules? Because until you torture and assassinate your POWs, the other side won't beat you to it. The rules are there to protect OUR troops, not theirs. It's not hard to figure out, but if you really don't get it, read ON KILLING: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society -- by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, (a former Ranger and now psychologist).

As to your second point: "torture is a key aspect of an counter-insurgency operation." Indeed it is. It is the point at which you convince your enemies to torture and kill any of your men they might capture. It is also the point at which an individual becomes liable for war crimes.


Well thank you for trying to prove your point with a notion that flies in the face of all historical events. The enemy does not play by the rules you sillyhead, and being so naive as to believe they do and that we should follow them for no reason is ludacris. That Lt. Col. Grossman sounds like a real dummy.

They are already torturing and killing anyone they capture; are you that blind? And I'm just talking simple war tactics. The fact remains that torture is a key aspect of any counter-insurgency operation. Without it one might as well go tweleve rounds in a boxing match with one hand tied behind their back. All is fair in love and war.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Why follow a set of rules? [Re: d33p]
    #3349430 -

Quote:
They are already torturing and killing anyone they capture; are you that blind?


You have a remarkable grasp of the obvious. Guess who started it? Three guesses.

Wrong. Thanks for playing.

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Re: Why follow a set of rules? [Re: LucidDream]
    #3349527 -

LucidDream said:
Quote:
They are already torturing and killing anyone they capture; are you that blind?


You have a remarkable grasp of the obvious. Guess who started it? Three guesses.

Wrong. Thanks for playing.


Oh please do explain. Iraqi's have a history of torturing American POWs. The only reason why torture of Americans has not been used extensively during the recent war campaign and by the insurgency is that it provides absolutely no value to them. There is no information they seek to gain and most American GIs are better than to spill the beans and even if they did they would not have much to say. This is why the insurgency has concentrated on soft targets. They are safer to attack and generally cause more greif back at home.

Also anyone who blames the beheadings on abu ghraib is very nieve. The mutli-national indiscrimination as well as the demands required by many of the insurgents null this argument. As well the public outcry from the first beheading of nick berg showed the practice to not be an effective tool for retribution for torture to improve the groups public standing, yet the beheading continued suggesting a seperate motive. One such as trying to instil the notion that we are fighting a horrible war of attrition and to degrade the safety of all those who are in iraq.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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