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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry
    #3280799 - 10/26/04 08:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)



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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #3282064 - 10/27/04 12:28 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

hmm, worldnetdaily eh?


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Vvellum]
    #3282145 - 10/27/04 12:46 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So? Oh, and notice the wording on the linked site, "researchers claim."


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #3282303 - 10/27/04 01:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Yawn.

Where was Bush?


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Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Rose]
    #3282549 - 10/27/04 02:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Who cares where in the hell Bush was Cervantes? In my opinion, avoiding Nam, doing drugs, and sleeping with lose women are a better idea than going to Paris and meeting with our enemies. Do you think that going to going to Paris to meet with our communist enemies was a good idea? John Kerry is a horsefaced traitor.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3282565 - 10/27/04 02:35 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Who cares where in the hell Bush was Cervantes? In my opinion, avoiding Nam, doing drugs, and sleeping with lose women are a better idea than going to Paris and meeting with our enemies. Do you think that going to going to Paris to meet with our communist enemies was a good idea? John Kerry is a horsefaced traitor.




What does it mean when you get funding for your oil business from one of Bin Laden's brothers and your whole family is in deep with the saudi royal family?


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Happiness is a warm gun...


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3282601 - 10/27/04 02:44 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Tell me, JC: Do you believe Vietnam was a just war that we were right to enter into?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #3282667 - 10/27/04 03:04 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

We fought for the liberation of the South Vietnamese people. It is hard to call that unjust or immoral. The questions of Vietnam beg for a more detailed analysis than I am prepared to get into tonight. I will get back to you on that.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3282692 - 10/27/04 03:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
We fought for the liberation of the South Vietnamese people. It is hard to call that unjust or immoral.



If I remember correctly, we fought to contain communism. While I am certainly no proponent of communism, I don't think I'd really call it "liberation" when you're just fighting for another country to have a government which suits your interests. Then of course, there was the staged Gulf of Tonkin incident.



--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBillytheKid
Forgeddaboudit!

Registered: 10/18/04
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Loc: Connecticut
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3283248 - 10/27/04 09:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Kerry went with a number of people mostly americans to Paris to meet with representitives of the war. Not just kerry so dont make it sound that way and he didnt go for himself he went representing the "veterans against vietnam" group he was a part of after they selected him. On the othe rhand draft dodging, doing coke, failing to take medical exams and leaving the guard early so you can campaign with friends in Alabama as Bush did should be an impeachable ofense. For one thing Kerry was pro active and involved with politics, Bush was just a rich kid using his daddys good name and money to have fun. He would later use his connections to steal the 2000 election.


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Bingo!


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Rose]
    #3283410 - 10/27/04 10:40 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Where was Bush?



This has nothing to do with Bush. How about addressing the claims made in the article? Was Kerry taking marching orders from a communist foreign government?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineBillytheKid
Forgeddaboudit!

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 149
Loc: Connecticut
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #3283436 - 10/27/04 10:50 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

No, he represented a group that along with other american groups including government officials met with viet cong members, he also got together later on with Senator McCain to find funding to pay for the release of American POWs, again where was Bush?


--------------------
Bingo!


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: BillytheKid]
    #3283445 - 10/27/04 10:57 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Did you READ the article?

Again, this thread is not about Bush. You are missing the point, I do not support Bush and if I intended this thread to be about him, I would have given it another title and different initial content. Is that concept too hard to grasp?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #3283704 - 10/27/04 12:22 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I love it how people think that its Americas job to go around the world and fight monsters.

We went into vietnam with the sole reason of training the south vietnamese to fight their own war, but we got so wrapped up in it we ended up fighting it for them.

Kinda like Iraq.


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OfflineRoseM
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #3283723 - 10/27/04 12:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

So.... Kerry's opinion of the Vietnam war was NOTHING new. Most Americans share his opinions. Talking to the other side ENDS wars quicker than fighting. How many Vietnamese (North and South) died during the war? How many Americans? Vietnam got the worse end of the deal, I assure you.

Hell, after nuking Japan TWICE in WW2, we still had to talk to the Japanese before they surrendered. Is McCarther a traitor?

Vietnam was a war against Russia. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

What did Kerry's meeting in France do to hurt the USA?

God, meeting with some Iraqis right now, would be helpful to the USA imo... does that make me a traitor?

As for Bush (He'll keep coming up, he's no saint... nor did he fight in a war)...

Bush weaseled his way out of war, and spent his time in the Champaigne Unit of the US National guard (And he still didn't show up!). He was in the same unit as some of his oil buddies. But, he didn't talk to the Vietnamese, so he is better? WTF?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRustyShakelford
Just that nice..

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 13
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: silversoul7]
    #10353537 - 05/17/09 04:02 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

The vietnam war, just like pretty much all of our wars are not as they seem.  Why do you think that China wanted Vietnam??  Because it is a major grower and exporter of heroin.  Much like the country Afghanistan.  Iraq we went to have say in the oil fields.  Iran will be another war for oil.  Darfur has no oil.  Russia has oil.  Manuel Noreaga was in control of Panama drug routes, which, it's Panama!! Unless you have a boat or a plane, you have to go through there.  Guess what, Bosnia has the largest oil reserves in Europe!! http://bosnianews.blogspot.com/2008/05/bosnia-has-largest-oil-deposits-in.html ;

So when you try and debate why we go to war, just realize it ultimately comes down to money and power, which on this planet comes down to drugs and oil.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,919
Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: JesusChrist]
    #10367156 - 05/20/09 12:34 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

...meeting with our enemies.




Do you face your American flag, place your hand over your heart, & say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning when you wake up? "Our" enemies? Speak for yourself & your local chapter of right-wing militarists who meet regularly to discuss your fantasies of gunning down "illegals" that you can't carry out because of all the wimpy "bleeding hearts" in office. The U.S. invaded occupied their (the Vietnamese) country to attempt to continue imperialist influence over Southeast Asia (after Ho Chi Minh led the anti-imperialist faction to victory over the unsuccessful U.S. financed French military campaign to keep their control), dropped millions of tons of explosives of a poor nation for wanting independence, bombs that maimed & killed millions, poisoned their ecosystems... & let me guess, they should have rolled out the red carpet & then bowed down to welcome foreign imperialists & their internal collaborators to economically & politically control their society?

Quote:

We fought for the liberation of the South Vietnamese people.




Do you believe every bit of nationalist propaganda you've ever been told, where imperialism is "liberation?" If the nationwide elections had occurred, as they were scheduled for in 1956 before the U.S. subverted them by installing a dictator, then the nationalist/anti-colonialist Ho Chi Minh would have been the overwhelming winner. The U.S. attempted to keep elements of the Roman Catholic minority (who were the best off when the French controlled) in power for its own economic interests. The first dictator that the U.S. supported was so repressive & unpopular with the Buddhist & non-Catholic majority that they were compelled to get rid of him. Study some Vietnamese history & you would see that not only have they been fiercely resistant to relatively modern French, Japanese, & American attempts to control them, but also Chinese & Mongols going back at least several hundred years.

Before you reply... "But they were Communists!" ... what had been called 'Communism' in the traditional American political discourse (a meaningless term now since BO is called that every day now by Sean Hannity & company) was incorrect; it was never a single, unified ideology, there are almost as many divisions & "-isms" within it as with Christianity. Allowing the faction that came to power in Vietnam (which it eventually did anyways, after the millions of injuries & deaths, & a nation in ruins) to do so in no way, shape, or form endangered the American homeland. American imperial ambitions abroad... of course; that's why it was fought, not for the same bullshit propaganda about how "we're liberating people abroad while protecting ourselves at home" that every nation in the world pretty much tells it's gullible & nationalistic people to justify offensive wars & imperialism. The "Communist" government that consolidated power (Ho Chi Minh had died by this time) quickly went in a more market-oriented direction & went on to be the world's #2 exporters of both rice & coffee (statistics from a few years ago).

Either way, let other people run their own society. Instead of self-righteously proclaiming how wonderful you are to be "liberating" people, why not actually help people by going to the South & assisting black people in registering to vote, agitating against segregation, standing between peaceful demonstrators who had the audacity to ask for basic human rights & dignities, between them & police dogs & firehouses, & trying to protect them from being hanged from a tree for wanting equality? How many "patriots" who claimed they wanted to "liberate" Vietnam even gave a fuck about egregious human rights violations in their own backyard? Kind of hard for a rational skeptic to believe that they had benevolent motives half a world away.   


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (05/20/09 01:01 AM)


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OfflineTGRR
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Registered: 05/22/07
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #10368818 - 05/20/09 11:35 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.


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OfflineTGRR
Horrible Bastard


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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: Evolving]
    #10368819 - 05/20/09 11:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Evolving said:
Did you READ the article?





No.  It's World Net Daily.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.


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Offlinedoodoomaster
Life's still good
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Re: Hanoi Communists Directed Kerry [Re: TGRR]
    #10371948 - 05/20/09 09:46 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

I have started to believe we fight some wars just to flex our muscles.


--------------------
For all you passive aggressive types.  Fuck you, kind of.


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