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InvisibleBolwarra
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Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 247
Loc: Australia
Ps semilanceata? EDIT (Pan sp)
    #3047225 - 08/25/04 03:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was meandering in a local horse paddock this morning and these caught my attention

Habitat East-Coast of N.S.W - Horse paddock, open aspect, facing Nth, pasture dominated by Paspalum sp, Pennesetum clandestinum (Kike) and Lolium sp (probably perenne habit mostly gregarious. Pasture well manured.

Cap: Light brown/chestnut to grey and fading with age, conic-campanulate, acute umbo present in some specimens. 9-21mm. Seperable from stipe. Pellicle seperable.

Gills adnexed, spacing sub-distant, dark prurple to brown.

Stem 30-85mm long, 10-20mm width, slender, equal, lighter towards apex, flexuose, annulus absent/invisible, fibrils absent/invisible.

Spores Print - dark prurple/black. Under scope dark purple/brown. (under magnification it appears to be a little darker than it should)

No apparent bruising, could this be due to the low Psilocin content in the species? (if it actually is P. semilanceata)


132kb


110kb


52kb


23kb

So with all this in mind i'm fairly sure it's P. semilanceata, although i'm after confirmation / suggestions as i've never come across this spp before.

I also spotted this little fella on my way home. Could be Litoria fallax - Dwarf Tree Frog - only 20-25mm long. just had to share, i thought he was awsome.


56kb

Cheers all.


Edited by Bolwarra (08/25/04 11:31 PM)


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Offlineastralasia
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047324 - 08/25/04 04:00 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm no expert but I'm fairly sure that they are not liberty caps. I can see why you would come to that conclusion but the caps are too rounded, no nipple, the colour/texture of the cap doesn't look right, they look like one of the pans to me.


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Offlinepapayafuzz
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047428 - 08/25/04 04:51 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm no expert either but I'd say also that those are definitely NOT Libs. Astralasia already listed few reasons and I would like to add that there doesn't seem to be removable slimy membrane on the cap which is typical for Semilanceatas.


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047570 - 08/25/04 07:14 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for your comments astralasia and pappyafuzz, however...

QUOTE: astralasia: "the colour/texture of the cap doesn't look right," - according to Stamets - Psilocybin mushroom of the world  - colour of this species is variable.

i did actually note the presence of both the membranous pellicle, which was removable and also the presence of umbos's, although since all caps  in the group photo are facing away from the camera i guess the doesn't reveal the umbos very well.

Maturity and general 'witherd-ness' of the caps (we had some rain last week, followed by a few hot/dry days) could have possibly limited their 'viscidness'?

the first two photos are of farily mature specimens and i thought (probably wrongly) that the turning from conic to conic-umbonate may have disguised the appearance of umbos (atleast slightly, in mature specimens anyway)?

Thanks again for your comments/ you have both been help full.
Though anyone else care to add anything?

--------
EDIT: Phew 3kb left on upload limit :smile:, figured i would add close up of a cap with a nice little umbo (or atleast what i considered to be one) - now maybe someone can tell me if im way off.



16kb

cheers again.


Edited by Bolwarra (08/25/04 07:30 AM)


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OfflineNHansen
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047589 - 08/25/04 07:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

All I know is that frog is damn cool :smile:


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Offlinepapayafuzz
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047624 - 08/25/04 08:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Even if the color could be like that (thought to me it doesn't look right at all) the texture is still totally wrong. And isn't it wrong time of year (spring?) in Australia for Libs right now? Sorry.. just my honest opinion. Better luck next time.  :thumbup:


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: papayafuzz]
    #3047647 - 08/25/04 08:46 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

it's a farily fine line between winter/spring and even though it may be iregualar to find mushroom out of 'season' it doubt it's impossible, especially since within the last week we (or at least me locally) have had plenty of rain, which certainly increases chances of creating specific mircoclimates that could still support fruiting.

with that said though, i think i am now tending to agree with you, the colour is rather 'off', but i'm not 100% convinced, but obviously couldn't be 100% sure either.

Though spores in particular as well as macroscopic features seemed to fit quite well.

but yes, as you said better luck next-time :smile:

thanks buddy, cheers.


--------------------


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Offlinecosmicsea
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047653 - 08/25/04 08:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

These look like Bell Cap Panaeolus. Anyone agree?


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047763 - 08/25/04 09:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

yeah, I'd say some type of panaeolus as well. P. semilanceata will have a viscid, striate cap when wet, a separable gelatinous pellicle(when wet), obviously purple spores and be strongly hygrophanous in drying.

DH


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Offlinearray
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: spores]
    #3047805 - 08/25/04 10:06 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Bolwarra said:
Spores Print - dark prurple/black. Under scope dark purple/brown. (under magnification it appears to be a little darker than it should)





I assume he means that the spore print is purplish black and purplish brown under the scope. If so, that eliminates panaeolus.


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: array]
    #3047819 - 08/25/04 10:14 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm referring mostly to the pictures, many people aren't so good with describing spore colors, especially once they know psilocybes have purple spores... purplish-black? heh.

Edit:After looking at the pics and description again, I'm not AS sure they're pans, but I still doubt they're semilanceata. you positive about the pellicle? can you get a pic of it being separated from the cap? Isn't it about spring time down there?

DH


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: spores]
    #3047842 - 08/25/04 10:29 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

good point Array/DH - the Spore description was a little confusing, thats why i added the picture.

QUOTE: Array: I assume he means that the spore print is purplish black and purplish brown under the scope.

Correct, Array, when printed on a slide, it's the large deposit and appears dark in colour (to the naked eye), but your right DH (dark black - rarthern than /purple, i guess i was a bit over excited), but under the scope this is a different story, as im sure you already checked the picture of the Spores at 600x - would you agree they are dark purple/brown as opposed to to black?

As Array pointed out Purple/brown should effectively rule out panaeolus.

--
i realize this is going round in circles, but i feel it's necessary, even though i wont be ingesting these.

more feedback would be greatly appreciated.

thakns for all ya' help guys.


--------------------


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3047863 - 08/25/04 10:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

QUOTE [DH]" Isn't it about spring time down there?
Very close, the official start is 1st Sept, but temps are still quite low and we recieved a decent ammount of rain within the last week approx 3-4'.

in regards to the pellicle, ill qive it a go, but my U/L limit has been reached, so it'l have to wait till the morning.

EDIT:

Since these specimens are already farily dry/brittle, i'll collect some more tomorrow morning, i guess fresher ones will be better suited, I made sure to leave a good proportion behind.

cheers.


Edited by Bolwarra (08/25/04 11:17 AM)


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Offlinearray
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3048120 - 08/25/04 12:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I would check the mycelium for blue coloring. Libery caps dont bruise easliy on the cap/stem from what i hear. Your description seems to fit liberty caps, but the pics do resemble pans. As for that pic of the spores, its kind of hard to tell from my monitor, i dont trust my color settings enough to say for sure what color that is.


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: spores]
    #3048204 - 08/25/04 01:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I would be inclined to agree with DH. They look very much like Pananeolus. The light fringed gills confirms it even more for me. I'd say Panaeolus campanulatus.


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3048574 - 08/25/04 02:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

what color they appear under the microscope is pretty irrelevant AFAIK, but to me they look more brown than purple in that pic...

the color they are to the naked eye in a mass spore deposit(print) is the spore color we use in identifying mushrooms.

DH


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3048834 - 08/25/04 03:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Those are Panaeolus campanulatus mushrooms and are not liberty caps.

mj


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Offlinerasjoe2112
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3049330 - 08/25/04 06:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I find Panaelous in my horse and goat pasture. Those are not Liberty caps. Those are some sorta Pan.

bigSloeofCherokeeCo


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InvisibleBolwarra
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: rasjoe2112]
    #3050045 - 08/25/04 09:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for you comments eveyone, also Gumby and MJ for the indication to species.

Panaeolus campanulatus is a syn. of P. papilonaceus right? - it's margin should have tooth-like veil remnants? - im going back this morning to have a look as the ones i came across didn't noticible have this feature? - (though as i said some quite old/withered) and im fairly sure this could be the reason?

i guess the lemon shaped spores could have been a nice indicator, if i picked up on it. :smile:

cheers all.


Edited by Bolwarra (08/25/04 09:22 PM)


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Psilocybe semilanceata? [Re: Bolwarra]
    #3050114 - 08/25/04 09:27 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Panaeolus campanulatus is really a complex of a bunch of mushrooms that all look a like, but are probably different species. You might say the taxon of the Panaeolus genus needs some serious revision.

Mushrooms that could be called Panaeolus campanulatus:

P. papilonaceus
P. sphinctrinus
P. campanulatus

There are a few other mushrooms listed in the complex in Mushrooms Demystified but I don't have that book here at school with me. Either way, I don't believe that any of the mushrooms in the complex are hallucinogenic.


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