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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 4
    #28956440 -

Who the fuck is we?

Who is wealthy?

Are soldiers wealthy?

Are the deliberately undereducated people rotting away in private labor prisons wealthy?

Wealth is not the only thing that matters. It can be actively harmful even, when you have a population of people who can afford an AR-15 and a case of mountain dew, but they can't afford to take 30 minutes out of their day to talk to their own children.

How much of that wealth is tied up in perpetuating the violence itself?

How many people in America sleep on park benches, or work full time and still need food stamps? So that we will have more money to buy Israeli pagers that explode. So we have more money to buy more weapons, so the Russians buy more weapons, so the Chinese buy more weapons.

If there needs to be violence, and it's inevitable, perhaps we could start executing generals? Weapons manufacturers? Clergy?

I mean if somebody has to die. If somebody absolutely has to fucking die.

The wealthy light their cigars off of the funeral pyres of stupid men.

Proud, stupid, men.


--------------------
She/Her🏳️‍⚧️

Libertine Gramscian social-reconstructionist

:blazed::spinleaf::bongload:

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Calm_A_Llama_Down] * 3
    #28956492 -

Have you ever been hit in the face with a bat by a stranger while you slept? 

I have.  He didn't stop because he was ashamed.  He stopped because I applied violence to him and made him run away.

That's a personal example.

Of course there are countless historical examples.
II'm typing in English rather than Welsh or whatever because of violence between Angles and Britons like, a long ass time ago. 

Pretty much every post-agriculture civilization was founded on and propped up by violence. 

That's how Rome expropriated all the valuables in their part of the world to a single city.

Violence was really effective at getting rid of tsars and other royals.

Violence was pretty effective for the slaves in Haiti.  I mean, it was a bit of a pyrrhic victory given the subsequent and ongoing pariah status but still, one more for the violence tally.

Obviously I could go on for a long time and of course, violence doesn't always work.  Hannibal absolutely trounced Rome on their home turf for like, 14 years or something.  Killed all their generals and shit.  They just sailed to Africa and fucked up his home turf until he came home and they finally got him.  I mean, they didn't get him. They beat him in a battle and his city surrendered more or less right away.  He actually fled and got chased around the Mediterranean by Romans until he was a pretty old man and then they eventually got his ass.

So there's that

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: ballsalsa] * 6
    #28956515 -

Well I take your point.

I still feel that violence, even though it is a part of history, still deserves to be examined by a critical lense.

Like the idea that it is a mandatory part of life forever, is not above re-examination. We can deconstruct that idea.

If we point to the crimes of the past, to justify the crimes of the present, we will never get to see a future.

Just the same cycle over and over.

If we can learn to make radioactive suitcase bombs, mini nukes, and exploding pagers, I bet we could also learn to get along with each other. At least, a lot better than we do now.

Some people are motivated not to let that happen.


--------------------
She/Her🏳️‍⚧️

Libertine Gramscian social-reconstructionist

:blazed::spinleaf::bongload:

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Calm_A_Llama_Down]
    #28956532 -

Preach
❤️‍🔥


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Calm_A_Llama_Down] * 1
    #28956613 -

Effective in getting someone to permanently shut the fuck up, by making them dead.

To say it's not effective is just ignorance.

Look at January 6th. It took one woman dying and gravy seal 6 pissed their pants and tucked their tails in.

I like your enthusiasm for non-violence, but it's not realistic and it's not grounded in reality.

Men like Putin weren't made in a vacuum, they were made with violence, especially political violence. The same god damn fucking bullshit that orange oompa loompa has been calling for. God I hate that fucking weird loser.

Men like Putin bombed his own country, he bombed apartments and killed a bunch of people and blamed others for it and helped cement his power and that's not even in the top 100 fucked up things that man has done.

Calling for non violence and singing koom bah yaah just doesn't cut it.

Violence begets violence, or else you just end up a victim of it too.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #28956628 -

I really love the sentiment that we can move past it. Something I do believe in, but we have to try harder to distance ourselves from our violent impulses.

I think they’ll always be there, but we can continue to distance ourselves from it and be less prone to act out on them.



--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe
Free Therapy

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28956642 -

There was a study done that compared events that were solved by violent means versus non violent means in the 20th century. According to the study, non violence was actually more effective at affecting change even if it doesn't seem like it to an outsider.

Another study showed that nonviolence is much less frequently met with violence in turn.

Quote:
The International Center on Nonviolent Conflict’s paper on Nonviolent Resistance and Prevention of Mass Killings looked at 308 popular uprisings up to 2013. It found that “nonviolent uprisings are almost three times less likely than violent rebellions to encounter mass killings,” which faced such brutal repression nearly 68% of the time.



Link

Whether mankind can truly turn away from these impulses is another matter. That I have trouble believing given history and especially how crazy things are out there.

Violence will sometimes be the only solution in this sick world.


--------------------
Endlessly endorsing empathy empirically energizing existence™

~Always practice radical kindness~
R.I.P. Betty Boop, greatest mother to ever do it.

Edited by QuantumZ00 (09/22/24 01:02 AM)

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: QuantumZ00]
    #28956655 -

I don't think violence will ever disappear, but militarized violence is an aberration. It is not natural, to fly around in fighter jets blowing up buildings with missiles.

A lot of society, the economy, and traditional masculinity, are designed specifically to grease the wheels of that aberration.

For a long time, people thought a 50% mortality rate for infants was just natural, and never going to change. Just part of life, etc etc.

But eventually people started to wash their nasty fucking hands, and clean off their primitive medical tools, and the issue started to improve.

So who knows, maybe new ideas, new perspectives, new priorities, could have a similar effect on the presence of militarized violence in human life.


--------------------
She/Her🏳️‍⚧️

Libertine Gramscian social-reconstructionist

:blazed::spinleaf::bongload:

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28956656 -

GenesisCorrupted said:
I really love the sentiment that we can move past it. Something I do believe in, but we have to try harder to distance ourselves from our violent impulses.

I think they’ll always be there, but we can continue to distance ourselves from it and be less prone to act out on them.




I love the idea of being able to move past our base instincts. That's something that evolution would need to address as a whole.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there with no shame and shame seems to be getting evolved out. When it's beneficial to have no shame, why have it.

Sure, if we stand in unity, that can happen. It will never happe under a capitalistic society, let alone a late-stage capitalism society.

It would have to start from the top down in implementing change and frankly, seems unlikely to happen, especially if a man like Trump is allowed to rule.

That can't happen.


--------------------
Lead by example, words mean little when your actions don't reflect what you say.

Spread kindness, love, empathy, compassion.

Learn from mistakes. Try and do better. Each day is a new day, try to make it a better one.

Coconut and Avocado is awesome for the skin.

MIND OVER MATTER

:mushroom2::lsd:

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Calm_A_Llama_Down]
    #28956668 -

Calm_A_Llama_Down said:
I don't think violence will ever disappear, but militarized violence is an aberration. It is not natural, to fly around in fighter jets blowing up buildings with missiles.

A lot of society, the economy, and traditional masculinity, are designed specifically to grease the wheels of that aberration.

For a long time, people thought a 50% mortality rate for infants was just natural, and never going to change. Just part of life, etc etc.

But eventually people started to wash their nasty fucking hands, and clean off their primitive medical tools, and the issue started to improve.

So who knows, maybe new ideas, new perspectives, new priorities, could have a similar effect on the presence of militarized violence in human life.


I have no doubt given the backward steps we've taken with the publics understanding of how effective vaccines are and the massive anti-intellectual movement against consensus science like manmade climate change and Evolution, that in a few more decades you may seriously have far right lunatics arguing it's fake news that they need to wash their hands to get rid of germs.

I'm not so sure progress is a straight line at many points in history. While technology is certainly accelerating, humanity's moral and ethical degeneracy is NOT decelerating.


--------------------
Endlessly endorsing empathy empirically energizing existence™

~Always practice radical kindness~
R.I.P. Betty Boop, greatest mother to ever do it.

Edited by QuantumZ00 (09/22/24 01:26 AM)

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Calm_A_Llama_Down]
    #28956827 -

Calm_A_Llama_Down said:
Well I take your point.

I still feel that violence, even though it is a part of history, still deserves to be examined by a critical lense.

Like the idea that it is a mandatory part of life forever, is not above re-examination. We can deconstruct that idea.

If we point to the crimes of the past, to justify the crimes of the present, we will never get to see a future.

Just the same cycle over and over.

If we can learn to make radioactive suitcase bombs, mini nukes, and exploding pagers, I bet we could also learn to get along with each other. At least, a lot better than we do now.

Some people are motivated not to let that happen.


All of the most powerful people in the world. War is an excuse for money laundering obscene amounts of tax dollars.

Every intelligent person that I have talked to on the subject probably agrees that decentralization of power is at least part of the solution.

I am with you 100%, in your sentiment. I don't think war is necessary, and I do think that we are reaching a point where the cost of war is too great for civilization too bear.

However, violence will probably always be with us in some form. When you call the police on someone, you are utilizing the threat of violence to control a situation.

At the end of the day, humans are animals, and some are less evolved that others. Some people are straight psychopaths. I have known quite a lot of them. There is no cure for that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: QuantumZ00]
    #28956834 -

QuantumZ00 said:
I have no doubt given the backward steps we've taken with the publics understanding of how effective vaccines are and the massive anti-intellectual movement against consensus science like manmade climate change and Evolution, that in a few more decades you may seriously have far right lunatics arguing it's fake news that they need to wash their hands to get rid of germs.

I'm not so sure progress is a straight line at many points in history. While technology is certainly accelerating, humanity's moral and ethical degeneracy is NOT decelerating.


I think you are misunderstanding what those things are. People are losing faith in our governing institutions, for good reason. Look what happened in 2008. The banks committed horrible crimes against the people. People lost their homes, and their retirement savings... and the government bailed out the big banks, and left the middle class in shambles.

What they should have done is broken up the banks, and bailed out the middle class. Nowadays, People are struggling, and they are angry, and for damn good reason. Wages remain stagnant, the cost of living is going up in every direction, millennial are a lost generation who will never get a firm footing in the world, and they are blamed for it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #28956847 -

Just stop eating avocado toast!

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28956855 -

Bigbadwooof said:
I think you are misunderstanding what those things are. People are losing faith in our governing institutions, for good reason. Look what happened in 2008. The banks committed horrible crimes against the people. People lost their homes, and their retirement savings... and the government bailed out the big banks, and left the middle class in shambles.

What they should have done is broken up the banks, and bailed out the middle class. Nowadays, People are struggling, and they are angry, and for damn good reason. Wages remain stagnant, the cost of living is going up in every direction, millennial are a lost generation who will never get a firm footing in the world, and they are blamed for it.


Where in my comment did you interpret I don't know what those things are or are misunderstanding them?

Every generation thinks the problems it's facing are the worst, and that they shouldn't have faith in their country. The Depression, both of them - the one in the 1930s and the one in the 1890s - had people losing faith in their government. Marie Antoinette and her doddering king husband let french people to be deeply disillusioned by their government .

We are absolutely facing crisis that are in some ways unprecedented - especially given the authoritarian modern Republican party and trump - and Democracy is in danger.

But that doesn't change what I said. People are consumed with anti intellectualism and reject two hundred years of scientific advancements and knowledge because a book written by two thousand year old goat herders told them so. Until people start embracing progress again the solutions to the problems you mentioned won't come easily.


--------------------
Endlessly endorsing empathy empirically energizing existence™

~Always practice radical kindness~
R.I.P. Betty Boop, greatest mother to ever do it.

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: QuantumZ00]
    #28956878 -

QuantumZ00 said:
Bigbadwooof said:
I think you are misunderstanding what those things are. People are losing faith in our governing institutions, for good reason. Look what happened in 2008. The banks committed horrible crimes against the people. People lost their homes, and their retirement savings... and the government bailed out the big banks, and left the middle class in shambles.

What they should have done is broken up the banks, and bailed out the middle class. Nowadays, People are struggling, and they are angry, and for damn good reason. Wages remain stagnant, the cost of living is going up in every direction, millennial are a lost generation who will never get a firm footing in the world, and they are blamed for it.


Where in my comment did you interpret I don't know what those things are or are misunderstanding them?

Every generation thinks the problems it's facing are the worst, and that they shouldn't have faith in their country. The Depression, both of them - the one in the 1930s and the one in the 1890s - had people losing faith in their government. Marie Antoinette and her doddering king husband let french people to be deeply disillusioned by their government .


The French had a bloody revolution over it. In the 20's, the Americans got FDR. We got fucking OBAMA... if there was ever a moment to implement universal healthcare in America, that was it. Obama coulda been FDR II... but instead he was a watered down Romney.

Quote:
We are absolutely facing crisis that are in some ways unprecedented - especially given the authoritarian modern Republican party and trump - and Democracy is in danger.


You think THAT is the crisis? Bless your heart.

Quote:
But that doesn't change what I said. People are consumed with anti intellectualism and reject two hundred years of scientific advancements and knowledge because a book written by two thousand year old goat herders told them so. Until people start embracing progress again the solutions to the problems you mentioned won't come easily.


It's unfortunate, but yeah... People are looking for something to give their lives meaning. They are turning to religion. My generation is struggling to raise a family... they are struggling to even secure housing.

When you go to a 12 step program, they tell you to find a higher power. That works for a lot of people, believe it or not. That's what people are doing.

I think an increase in religiosity is a symptom of the problem, even if it does serve to exacerbate it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28956880 -

ballsalsa said:
Just stop eating avocado toast!


Lmao!

"When I was a kid we lived on rice cakes and bean paste!"


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28956909 -

Bigbadwooof said:
That's what people are doing.



replacing one bottle for another?

you kno, the housing market isnt that bad. if i could buy a house i feel like anyone could.


--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: mushboy]
    #28956919 -

mushboy said:
Bigbadwooof said:
That's what people are doing.



replacing one bottle for another?

you kno, the housing market isnt that bad. if i could buy a house i feel like anyone could.


Well, you're just flat out wrong lol! Maybe where you live that's true, but real estate is all about location.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28956925 -

i bought a house in one of the most expensive states to buy a house. taxes out the ass.

i put nothing down. like literally zero. govt programs can be wonderful if people research them instead of complain that things are harder than the last generation. at least imo:snub:

hell we have somethings astronomically better. like clean food and water.



--------------------
:hypnotoad:
Making Liquid Culture :  Go insane with LC
Mushboy likes these teks : Making shroom tea
Dank Education

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Re: Trump thinks Hitler is super cool [Re: mushboy]
    #28956950 -

mushboy said:
i bought a house in one of the most expensive states to buy a house. taxes out the ass.

i put nothing down. like literally zero. govt programs can be wonderful if people research them instead of complain that things are harder than the last generation. at least imo:snub:

hell we have somethings astronomically better. like clean food and water.




Lol


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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