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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Reform or Revolution?
    #2825495 - 06/24/04 10:41 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

I think all of us, whether liberal, conservative, or what have you, will agree there's some things wrong about our country. I'm wondering which you think is preferable: reform or revolution? Should we bring about changes in the system slowly through legislation, or have this nation's problems gotten so bad that we need to start over and have another revolution?
Which would you prefer?
You may choose only one
Reform
Revolution
Neither


Votes accepted from (06/24/04 02:00 AM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2825506 - 06/24/04 10:43 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

i think perhaps you want to double check your first sentence there.

:thumbup:


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #2825508 - 06/24/04 10:45 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Thanks. *edited*


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2825573 - 06/24/04 11:01 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

revolution requires a reform does it not?
I vote both


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2825586 - 06/24/04 11:04 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
revolution requires a reform does it not?



No, actually one of the things Karl Marx got right was realizing that reform is the enemy of revolution. Reform involves compromises, legislation, and negotiation. Revolution involves completely overthrowing the current system.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2825599 - 06/24/04 11:06 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Yes but once you have overthrown it.. then what?
You have to rebuild a hopefully better system learning from the mistakes of the past
and according to my dictionary reform =

1. To improve by alteration, correction of error, or removal of defects; put into a better form or condition.
2.
1. To abolish abuse or malpractice in: reform the government.
2. To put an end to (a wrong). See Synonyms at correct.
3. To cause (a person) to give up harmful or immoral practices; persuade to adopt a better way of life.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Shroomism]
    #2825640 - 06/24/04 11:14 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Once you've overthrown it, you start over. That's not reform.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineuki
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2825666 - 06/24/04 11:19 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

all things change, all things move, all things revolve... revolution is inevitable... america is not a divinely blessed super nation immune to the effects of change, it is simply ignorant and too arrogant to accept the facts. what befalls one nation, befalls all nations. hell, america is one of the youngest, greenest, and ill-prepared nation in the world for the coming change... america is in for a big, humbling shock. hell it was founded on bloodshed, do you honestly think it won't fall in bloodshed?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826260 - 06/25/04 01:32 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

So if revolution were to occur in the US, would you dismiss the Constitution and instead draft a new document?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2826271 - 06/25/04 01:33 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Ok, I see your point. Anyway, just assume that revolution will involve some kind of political changes and stop arguing semantics.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826298 - 06/25/04 01:40 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Ideally, I would say that reform would be best. It could avoid many of the problems that revolution would cause to the economy and the general state of disarray that would inevitably accompany the revolution.

There are problems with either though. Reform requires awareness, understanding, and resolve. Attributes that most American's seem to lack.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826304 - 06/25/04 01:41 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

the only revolution that will work is a revolution of consciousness.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2826313 - 06/25/04 01:43 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

I see it now... Spike every reservoir with LSD... Brilliant!!!


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826328 - 06/25/04 01:45 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

that would be an initiation of force


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2826334 - 06/25/04 01:46 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Ya, but it'd be damn fun to see.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826339 - 06/25/04 01:47 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

actually, the chlorine in the drinking water would nuetralize the LSD


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2826348 - 06/25/04 01:50 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Goddamn chemistry, always ruining shit for me.  :thumbdown:


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OfflineRedo
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826362 - 06/25/04 01:54 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

There are too many people in this country, with too much space dividing. Just look at Europe, all those different governments suited best for the needs of the people. In the US, we have state to state laws, but it is not flexible enough to provide the people with the best government possible.

We need to break up into many sub-governments, instead of one giant one for the entire country. Maybe with some overlying enviromental laws over every sub-section of the country, so I definatly vote revolution.


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Redo]
    #2826566 - 06/25/04 02:51 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

I actually remember reading a report put out by one of the US govt agencies a couple years ago. They predicted that by 2012 (I believe) a civil war will have started and America as a whole would be broken up into 4 seperate "super-states" each running their own affairs independent of each other.

I'll do a search and see if I can find it.


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"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


Edited by SquattingMarmot (06/25/04 02:58 AM)


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2826609 - 06/25/04 03:11 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

revolution, system is flawed by foundation.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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