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InvisibleAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2826781 - 06/25/04 02:56 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Revolution will come


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2827090 - 06/25/04 06:37 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

99% of civilazations past and present had a much lower standard of living than modern western civilization....revolution? no thanks...chances are we would end up with something worse...

....unfortunatly, revolution or not, our era of technical advance and prosperity will fade in time....

Every civilization has had a golden age, and every golden age to date has ended eventually...and it seems western civilization may be in decline...though these kind of things are hard to see while there happening..


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2827150 - 06/25/04 07:21 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I put Revolution because I don't believe the right nor the left have it in them to work together to reform. The problem is, is that what sort of revolution would be good?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2827234 - 06/25/04 08:09 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

The republicans and democrats will shift their ideals to whatever the people desire so long as they maintain their two-party stranglehold. We need a reawakening of awareness. I would prefer that awareness to lean towards limited, constitutional government reflective of the vision the founding fathers' had for this country.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 6 years, 13 days
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2827323 - 06/25/04 09:01 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I'd like to see a revolution leading to a more decentralized power structure. Not this de facto plutocracy. Get rid of a strong centralized government, and you get rid of the chance that that strong centralized government will be manipulated by outside forces.

This country started off well, with presidents like Jefferson and Jackson, they fought for the good of this country, for its ideals. It was fresh back then.

But the old aristocratic powers from europe kept their eyes on the prize, when the founders had passed on, and a new, less vigilant, generation had come to bat, they again tried to bring the US under the umbrella. Slowly they dismantled what made this country special.

Any politician in the last 150 years that has said or done anything against this new quiet power establishment has been shot and/or killed.

I believe the ruling elite believe they have a 'divine right' to rule, and will violently, and without compromise, defend that "right".

Reform doesn't seem likely.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: FrankieJustTrypt]
    #2827385 - 06/25/04 09:33 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

hmmm.. it is interesting that people claim to understand a society that exsisted several thousand years ago. how the hell can some say that lost civilizations were lower in living standards? maybe the modern age of fear and oppression replaced those standards and thats what we believe? if western civilization with all its flaws, disease, war, sickness, fear, denial, and all that other fun stuff is a higher standard of living... i'd like to know what a low standard is.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827407 - 06/25/04 09:45 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

uki said:
if western civilization with all its flaws, disease, war, sickness, fear, denial, and all that other fun stuff is a higher standard of living... i'd like to know what a low standard is.


:eek:
Well off the top of my head id say a higher standard -Penicillin, Womens Rights, Literature, Scientific Method, Increased Life spans, Dentistry, Shower/Bath, Farming, increased abstract thought

Surely you dont believe the humans of ancient times lived without "flaws, disease, war, sickness, fear, ?denial?"


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2827427 - 06/25/04 09:53 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

interesting... human used to live like 900 years or more in other ages.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827452 - 06/25/04 10:02 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

I'd love to see you prove that. If not, shut the hell up with the bullshit. End of the world nonsense and biblical garbage are not to be thrown around in this forum. Stick to facts or don't bother.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827469 - 06/25/04 10:05 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Oh yea i forgot Methuselah  :rolleyes:


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2827519 - 06/25/04 10:18 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

well it's all a matter of faith. prove to me they didn't live 900 years, if not, shut the hell up.


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OfflineAncalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827521 - 06/25/04 10:19 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

The burden of proof is on you my friend, you made the claim. That is how logical debate works.


--------------------
?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Ancalagon]
    #2827528 - 06/25/04 10:21 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

this isn't a logical debate as i am not a logical person. :smile:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827530 - 06/25/04 10:23 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

uki said:
this isn't a logical debate as i am not a logical person.


Hey i think we finally agree on something


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Offlineuki
fool of wisdom
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 213
Loc: the milky way
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: DieCommie]
    #2827537 - 06/25/04 10:24 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

good, sometimes logic can only be defined by illogical means.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2827553 - 06/25/04 10:29 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
I put Revolution because I don't believe the right nor the left have it in them to work together to reform. The problem is, is that what sort of revolution would be good?



That's what worries me. What kind of revolution would a bunch of rednecks, welfare moms, illegal immigrants, etc. create? We were lucky during the American Revolution to have some of the greatest minds in our history living at that time.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827562 - 06/25/04 10:32 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

uki said:
this isn't a logical debate as i am not a logical person. :smile:



A touching display of honesty, but you are only right about the second part.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,768
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827579 - 06/25/04 10:36 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

uki: stop derailing threads with talk about your ego, please  :wink:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: uki]
    #2827742 - 06/25/04 11:15 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

this isn't a logical debate as i am not a logical person




This has to be the most logical thing you've said all day.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Reform or Revolution? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2827795 - 06/25/04 11:28 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

That's what worries me. What kind of revolution would a bunch of rednecks, welfare moms, illegal immigrants, etc. create? We were lucky during the American Revolution to have some of the greatest minds in our history living at that time.




That's where I was getting at. The only revolution I'd be for would be to hold politicians accountable and to ONLY follow what is outlined in the Constitution. It will never happen because there are too many different kinds of people today compared to those during the revolutionary days. They were fighting for ONE purpose, to be free. They didn't give a damn about the trivial things about 99% of Americans worry about.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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