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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27644411 -

morrowasted said:
It's almost as though an angel of death has descended upon the world to... Do a periodic separating of the wheat from the chaff.


Evolutionary selection events, just like wars used to be.

If we accumulate too many violent fucks, we get a war and they run into the crossfire convinced of their invincibility.

Covid is a monkey banana experiment.

-Enter a virus that is serious but much more ignorable than smallpox.
-Enter a vaccine that mostly limits severity of infection.
-Let them choose their fate.

Rich nations hog vaccine? OK, more mutations for the whole world.
People can't be arsed to get vaxxed? No herd immunity protecting especially THEM.

A virus born out of the perversion of incompatible caged animals shitting over each other, greed and mistrust prevent rational pandemic control and vaccine distribution.
Very fitting.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27644417 -

Sorry, I don't have the rest of the joke. :shrug:


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27644418 -

We're all kinda waiting for the punchline.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante]
    #27644433 -

We're the punchline.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27644445 -

Quote:
Now that covid mortality is largely restricted to those who chose not to get vaccinated, our set of moral obligations to those people has changed.


to speak more plainly, our moral/emotional obligations to patients with OR without covid- who in an unacceptable number of cases had to spend all of the most difficult hours, days, or weeks of their lives mostly alone (*even if unconscious...) and never in the company of anyone that isn't a stranger, except (in some "fortunate" cases) in the few disoriented moments immediately preceding a death they likely just found out was imminent, due to having been completely sedated for a week- outweigh our obligations to the current and future populations of potential COVID victims to 'try to prevent them from getting sick or spreading the virus at all".  I could even argue from utilitarian principles that patients who have covid should be allowed visitors as long as PPE is used. I have come to suspect that the presence of loved ones is more holistically important than and not infrequently as 'effective' as most of what doctors have to offer. This mostly applies to people [potentially] dying of chronic diseases, though. Infectious disease is an entirely different ball game. If a pandemic is causing a hospital to spiral into bankruptcy, and that hospital has good reason to believe that allowing patients to have visitors is significantly contributing to the perpetuation of that pandemic, it would seem straightforward that the right thing to do is to not allow visitors. The idea being that the overall well-being of people in the long term will be better when the pandemic ends, and thus that the extreme emotional suffering of current covid patients caused by near total isolation (and the sudden revelation that death is likely to occur within minutes or hours) is justified by preventing future instances of suffering caused by death and illness from the virus itself, irrespective of the circumstances surrounding those deaths. But the longer as the policies stay this way, the less hospitals can legitimately use the existence of an infectious disease to deny basic needs like presence of loved ones to patients- particularly those who don't even have it.

It has long been clear that denying visitors to hospital patients no longer significantly affects the rate of spread. This virus, in all of its ever shifting forms, is now essentially going to behave like the flu from this point on. It is never going away. The best any one person can do is get immunized without getting infected whenever possible, to minimize their contribution to the suffering of other people and maximize their potential to continue affecting the world in positive ways- literally by avoiding death longer than their confused anti-vax/antimask  counterparts.

Hospitals continue to deny visitors- as long as they can get away with using the spectre of COVID as a justification for doing so- to protect themselves from predatory personal/medical injury lawyers (in my cynical opinion). In the case of my own hospital, I genuinely suspect that a large part of the reason the policy remains in place is simply that selfishness is just as rampant among hospital employees as it is anywhere and a critical mass of them complain about it anytime someone suggests it ought to be switched back. Mostly, it seems to me, because work, fucked up as it is, remains a nice break from whatever mistake of a family they have found themselves a part of.


TLDR: the weight of emotional suffering is intentionally ignored in most discussions about which hospital policies make sense and why because it is convenient to both employers and employees choosing the road of selfishness/cowardice

Edited by morrowasted (02/03/22 09:54 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27644472 -

Baby_Hitler said:
We're the punchline.


The inevitability of death is the punchline.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27644473 -

:obamafrown:

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27644475 -

ZING!


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27644525 -

Frankly, hospitals may have been unintentionally shooting themselves in the foot this whole time by denying visitation to covid patients. If these families had seen their loved ones dying in person back when having patients survive covid and get discharged was celebrated with an overhead speaker announcement because of how uncommon it was, then, and how discouraged and demoralized everyone was rapidly becoming- really heard them coughing in person, really watched their condition take one terrifyingly rapid deteriorating turn after another- I can't help but suspect, or at least naively hope, that things might have played out differently. Instead they were stripped of any opportunities to participate in the treatment of their loved ones; they were rendered totally powerless and at the same time asked to place all of their trust in these doctors who appeared to be gatekeeping access to their loved one while simultaneously framing what sound a little like threats behind a veil of excessively technical language. Is it really any wonder that so many people have responded to this powerlessness with an ever expanding multitude of irrational behaviors?

Another potentially unforeseen consequence has resulted from existence of HIPAA, which hamstringed the ability of hospital workers to compensate for the lack of physical interaction between families and their dying loved ones during those crucial first few formative months of the then-emerging pandemic. Not saying we should do away with HIPAA obviously... All we can do is learn from what happens so we can do a little bit better next time.

Edited by morrowasted (02/03/22 10:26 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted]
    #27644610 -

In retrospect it shouldn't have surprised anyone that so many people responded with indignance and disbelief to being 'threatened' with a choice between trusting strangers to do as much as they imagine they would (if only they could...*) and having to potentially deal with the guilt and shame of withdrawing their loved one from the hospital "against medical advice"- should death or needless suffering and physical, mental, or emotional trauma follow that decision. People lash out in irrational ways when they feel cornered and powerless.

* Cue Joe Rogan and the Ivermectin Eaters

Edited by morrowasted (02/03/22 11:37 PM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #27644964 -

morrowasted said:
Frankly, hospitals may have been unintentionally shooting themselves in the foot this whole time by denying visitation to covid patients. If these families had seen their loved ones dying in person back when having patients survive covid and get discharged was celebrated with an overhead speaker announcement because of how uncommon it was, then, and how discouraged and demoralized everyone was rapidly becoming- really heard them coughing in person, really watched their condition take one terrifyingly rapid deteriorating turn after another- I can't help but suspect, or at least naively hope, that things might have played out differently. Instead they were stripped of any opportunities to participate in the treatment of their loved ones; they were rendered totally powerless and at the same time asked to place all of their trust in these doctors who appeared to be gatekeeping access to their loved one while simultaneously framing what sound a little like threats behind a veil of excessively technical language. Is it really any wonder that so many people have responded to this powerlessness with an ever expanding multitude of irrational behaviors?




When the Allied to their utter horror discovered what was going on in the concentration camps they liberated, they also found that villagers living up close to the camp often had not the faintest idea what went on behind those two fences of electric wire.

So, they dragged the townspeople in to see with their own eyes, the death, destruction, smell the death and decay BEAR WITNESS to what their regime had done.

That really sank in the message vwith Germans themselves that they crossed a line that should not be crossed.


I agree with you that the deliberate passing on of the bearing witness would have done very good things, especially when the covertly made vids and pics hit the social networks.

Its been too sanitized for the average citizen, its like how nobody pays mind to the story behind the meat they eat.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 2
    #27644988 -

Are you guys this mad at people who don't get their flu shot?


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: JohnnyTripsAlot] * 3
    #27644994 -

We aren't mad, we're disappointed and sad that even the most basic condition of human society, adherance to common sense, basic trust and collective responsibility, is not upheld.

We need to scratch the expression "avoid like the plague" because as it turns out, many people don't do that.


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 3
    #27645000 -

Basic trust, you said it.

It's not there anymore, you folks don't seem to agree w that and I understand but we're not going to see eye to eye.  According to koods all us antivaxxers will just die off anyway.

And maybe not Asante but a lot of you do seem very mad lol


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Edited by JohnnyTripsAlot (02/04/22 08:16 AM)

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: viraldrome] * 1
    #27645039 -

viraldrome said:
When the unvaxxed die I laugh and cheer, it's the opposite of getting upset.



:shrug:


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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: JohnnyTripsAlot]
    #27645123 -

JohnnyTripsAlot said:
Are you guys this mad at people who don't get their flu shot?


It's closer to the feeling of impatience you get when a toddler stubbornly refuses to learn something you are pretty sure they're capable of learning.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27645196 -

Interesting !

I know the UK Government posted out D3 mid 2020 to the older population.

Israeli study finds patients who are deficient are up to 14 TIMES more likely to fall severely ill

They found those with vitamin D deficiencies made up 87% of severe cases


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10477041/Does-Vitamin-D-work-Covid-Israeli-study-finds-nutrient-big-indicator-severity.html


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“Let him not brag of his progressive views, boast of his status as an academician or a recognized artist, a distinguished citizen or general. Let him say to himself plainly: I am cattle, I am a coward, I seek only warmth and to eat my fill.”

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: J the Hesychast]
    #27645201 -

Yeah I wonder if there was anybody talking about that immediately after covid surfaced

What do you think, Asante? You recall anyone like that?

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: Asante] * 5
    #27645226 -

It's irrational & unwise to be disappointed or sad when people don't behave as you wish.

One of the cornerstones of maturity is to abandon this type of childish fantasy.

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Re: COVID-19 = SARS-CoV-2 - Novel Coronavirus Pandemic Main Thread - PART 3 (Third Wave 2021-2022 season) [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #27645316 -

RJ Tubs 202 said:
It's irrational & unwise to be disappointed or sad when people don't behave as you wish.

One of the cornerstones of maturity is to abandon this type of childish fantasy.


Certainly, but it's also possible to have been consistently mature in your behaviors for long enough that every seemingly unnecessary instance of immaturity, coming from people you can't help but suspect might really know better in their hearts, taxes the patience of your soul. Abandoning the delusion that One simply should feel secure and happy is paradoxically fundamental to actually feeling secure and happy.

Edited by morrowasted (02/04/22 01:27 PM)

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