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Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising
    #2594926 -

Yep, we must be winning their hearts and minds...

Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising
WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Friday, April 23, 2004 (the above link is breaking news, it may cease to link to the story at anytime)

BAGHDAD ? The U.S. has determined that nearly half of the more than 200,000 Iraqi security officers refused to fight in the battle against Sunni and Shi'ite insurgents in early April.

Ten percent actually worked against the U.S.

"About 50 percent of the security forces that we've built over the past year stood tall and stood firm," Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, said. "About 40 percent walked off the job because they were intimidated. And about 10 percent actually worked against us."

[On Thursday, the U.S. military expressed impatience with the refusal by residents of Faluja to surrender their heavy weapons, Middle East Newsline reported. Officials termed as junk the weapons so far relayed to authorities.]

The assessment exceeded claims of senior U.S. officials that only a small portion of Iraqi security forces actually disobeyed orders or joined the insurgents. U.S. military commanders warned that the Iraqi military and security forces must be reconstituted.

"We have to take a look at the Iraqi security forces and learn why they walked," Dempsey said.

Officials said Iraqi officers had been frightened by the prospect that they or their familes would be killed by Shi'ite or Sunni insurgents. They said the massive walkout was partly the result of a U.S. policy that allowed security officers to work near their homes.

Dempsey, in an video conference from Baghdad to the annual meeting of the Associated Press in the United States, said police, ICDC and military troops refused to fight their neighbors in cities around Iraq. He blamed the absence of a strong command structure for the failure to impose discipline on the troops.

A U.S. military report said those Iraqi security officers who joined the insurgents had been sent to infiltrate the police, military and ICDC. The report urged the military to improve its vetting process.

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations, said the U.S. military and Coalition Provisional Authority were examining the return of senior Iraqi officers who served under the Saddam Hussein regime as part of a command structure for the Iraqi military and security forces. He said there were many senior officers who did not participate in atrocities under the Saddam regime.

"As we continue to grow the Iraqi armed forces from more than just squads and platoons and companies and battalions that need lieutenant colonels, captains and majors, as the organization gets bigger, as the Ministry of Defense is fleshed out, as the Iraqi armed forces Joint Forces Headquarters is established, there is going to be a need for high-ranking officers," Kimmitt said. "You're going to need generals, you're going to need full colonels, you're going to need senior officers to command and control those organizations. Obviously, that is not a skill level that you can get in a series of weeks."


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Evolving]
    #2594961 -

So they're pussies. Are you surprised? They've been pretty goddamned submissive to the Suni's/Ba'athists for most, if not all, of their lives. Remember that we pulled out last time we were there, and right after that, a bunch of them (mostly Kurds I believe) got gassed. It takes TIME to build an effective military force.


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Funniest shit I've read in a while:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart

"He who controls the spice controls the universe!"

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Arrakis]
    #2595021 -

If they're pussies, why did they sign up in the first place? Why are 10% now working for the other side? I am sure that there are some (pussies) who follow the U.S.'s orders because they're afraid of what may happen to them at the hands of the occupiers. I am also quite confident that there can be a variety of reasons, to dismiss them all as just being 'pussies' is overly simplistic and unrealistic. Do you deny that some might not want to play along with the U.S. forces because they disagree with what the U.S. is doing?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Evolving]
    #2595136 -

What am I, a goddamned mind reader?  I wasn't dismissing them all as being pussies. :rolleyes: I was being cynical (suppose that it's difficult to tell without smilies).  I'm betting that a SHITLOAD of them signed up just for the money.  Those are some of the most readily available jobs there, police officers & other security forces.  What did you expect?  That report is exactly what I expected.


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Funniest shit I've read in a while:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart

"He who controls the spice controls the universe!"

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Evolving]
    #2595182 -

"About 40 percent walked off the job because they were intimidated"

Or because they did not want to fire on their own neighbors and relatives.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Evolving]
    #2595201 -

Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations, said ... there were many senior officers who did not participate in atrocities under the Saddam regime.

And Kimmit knows this because:

A. He was there in Iraq for the last 15 years.

B. As a general, his word is law.

C. The senior Iraqi officers told him they were innocent (doh!).

D. The USA is running out of options.

Hmmm, which one makes for the best sound-bite?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: Evolving]
    #2595262 -

I'm surprised that the other half did.

I suspect that were American troops ordered to fire on American citizens, much less than 50% would do so.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2595553 -

didn't stop the FBI and ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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Re: Half of Iraqi forces refused to fight during uprising [Re: afoaf]
    #2595576 -

Last I was aware, the FBI and ATF are not troops.

Seems to me it also wasn't a wide spread uprising.

Apples / Oranges


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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