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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Does time exist? [Re: QOI]
    #25636063 -

QOI said:
Straight Mush said:
Time is a mental construct created by humans


I like an abstract thinker and I honestly use to feel the same way but now,  I feel time is a mathematical reality


I feel like I like puppies and kittens.

Time doesn't give a flying fuck about how I feel though.

It is a scientific constant. It's not a theory, like gravity isn't a theory. We aren't gonna figure out that one day we were wrong and just float off into space.

Oh, I know... it could all be an illusion, it's true everything is an illusion of perception, we could be in the matrix and all sorts of other esoteric bullshit too. But the power of time coupled with electricity is being used to make the computer in front of you work.

Imaginary computer... or real computer?

You could give up all your worldly possessions and go sit on the mountain. Time might appear to stand still for you for a while... but it won't really. You'll get old and die just like everyone else.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: BlueZi]
    #25636082 -

BlueZi said:
This is the problem with psychedelics for me. I don't experience it as a problem myself, but I know a lot of people interpret the symbology of a trip as profound physical truth when in reality, understanding such things takes more effort than drinking some magic tea.


That's exactly why posts like this exist, we're discussing these ideas to try to flesh them out. I don't think anyone here wouod say that just because time only exists within the mind that it is any less meaningful.

Time still has the same function it always does whether it exists outside the mind or not, this is a philosophical view, not a scientific one. By expanding our philosophical view we do not lose our view of science, you just realize that science does not encompass everything and it is not always the best tool for the job.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25636125 -

time doesn't only exist in your mind... or the fucking computer in front of you wouldn't work, or it would require you to think real hard to make it work.

I'm repeating myself here.



When we start to look at time/space things get real interesting, but we've only managed to really mess with that on a tiny scale. God or fucking someone help us if we manage to fuck with that good and proper. We'll need a bigger concrete bunker than the one they've built over Chernobyl to try and contain the fallout.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

Edited by Northerner (11/24/18 11:46 AM)

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25636132 -

krypto2000 said:
If time is not real and only a human construct does that apply to space as well? I'm inclined to think so.


The term space is a human mental construct. It's just something we use to label a phenomenon. This doesnt mean space is actually space it's just what we call it. Everything we can think of in word form is a mental creation in which other lifeforms may comprehend. That doesnt mean matter knows its matter or a banana knows it's a banana, these are just what we label them


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When in doubt refer to RR's infamous quotes via the search function

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Straight Mush]
    #25636139 -

Yes... all words are made up.

:einstein:


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #25636149 -

You matter. Until you multiply yourself times the speed of light squared. Then you energy.

Time can be variable though. Have you checked out the Hafele–Keating experiment?


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:gd_icon: Shadowboxing the apocalypse and wandering the land :gd_icon:

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25636257 -

I completely get you my dude. I'm very scientifically minded but my philosophical capacity is very underdeveloped. I'm sure if a person can appreciate one, and the other, they'll be able to rest with some sense of satisfaction. My goal is definitely to reconcile the two before I'm done.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: BlueZi]
    #25636276 -

Hafele–Keating experiment is pretty cool hey... gravity/time/space all very related. ie: relativity

Better start building that bunker I was talking about if you're thinking about multiplying anything times the speed of light squared though.

Or well, I guess it won't matter that much....  the explosion will wipe out most of our little corner of the galaxy. :lol:

On some far away world it'll stay daylight for 3 days, the natives will start sacrificing babies to the Gods seeking forgiveness for their sins...

And all because some dickhead scientist just couldn't resist not pushing the big red button with huge fucking letters on it saying "DO NOT PUSH!"


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Northerner]
    #25636281 -

Northerner said:
time doesn't only exist in your mind... or the fucking computer in front of you wouldn't work, or it would require you to think real hard to make it work.

I'm repeating myself here.



When we start to look at time/space things get real interesting, but we've only managed to really mess with that on a tiny scale. God or fucking someone help us if we manage to fuck with that good and proper. We'll need a bigger concrete bunker than the one they've built over Chernobyl to try and contain the fallout.


You're using circular reasoning. Describing something mathematically does not prove it exists, it just demonstrates how we understand it within our scientific framework. As I have said before the question of if it exists is not one that science can answer currently, it falls into the realm of philosophy.

This is like asking if color exists outside of the human mind and you "proving" it does by showing a color chart and claiming the existence of traffic lights makes it self evident. As we know now they do not though, they're simply different frequencies of radiation that when filtered through the human mind give rise to the phenomenon of color. Science does not yet know what, if anything, gives rise to time and space, we just know that we percieve it.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25636365 -

It's not circular reasoning. Time is a dimensional construct that exists because of interaction. If everything stopped existing, it would stop existing too.

Time is not some objective or subjective thing like a colour or a piece of paper or even my cock and balls. It's a dimension.

Yes, we could have a philosophical debate about whether anything actually exists. But just say we assume that all the stuff around us exists (like this computer you are reading this text on) then the existence of time is irrefutable. Otherwise your machine wouldn't work, because all of the science that made it work is based around time. It's not magic, it's science, that we made, in time, with time, using time.

It's not magic!


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Northerner]
    #25636507 -

If you go by Space(frequency), Time(vibration), and Matter(energy), then it does.

Everything starts from the frequency(Spirit/your idea/thoughts/line of events), first. Then when you want to experience time, you go into vibration(Soul, emotion, your individual time). Then once you vibrate enough, you become matter(your physical form/vessel).

So for example. If you have an idea to create something, that's you creating a frequency. Once you start vibrating that idea, you are putting your soul/time into it. After you've put enough vibration into that idea, it becomes a physical form you can touch.

I hope that brief example is clear.

Edited by The89thchamber (11/24/18 02:48 PM)

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: The89thchamber]
    #25636524 -

The89thchamber said:
If you go by Space(frequency), Time(vibration), and Matter(energy), then it does.

Everything starts from the frequency(Spirit/your idea/thoughts/line of events), first. Then when you want to experience time, you go into vibration(Soul, emotion, your individual time). Then once you vibrate enough, you become matter(your physical form/vessel).

So for example. If you have an idea to create something, that's you creating a frequency. Once you start vibrating that idea, you are putting your soul/time into it. After you've put enough vibration into that idea, it becomes a physical form you can touch.

I hope that makes brief example is clear.


Are you tripping right now? :freakout:

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Guy on a buffalo]
    #25636536 -

I wishhh!  :letyourspiritsoar:

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: The89thchamber]
    #25636607 -

I’m sorry Northerner, Tho, I think acceptance is key.

Before, I used to think I was a philosophically free-thinking, liberal hippy.

Then, I joined the Shroomery.

Now, I know that I am a scientifically-minded, materialist rationalist, conservative christian.





“Is my hand even real, man?”

Uh, yeh, yeh it is.

“Come on man! Question the human construct! That’s how we liberate our minds!”

Um, ok, but what do you do with all this science stuff?

“Don’t you get it, man?! Science is a human invention! It’s part of the construct!”

Umm. Yes.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Shr00mEater]
    #25636762 -

Man it makes me sad when people just spout madness from their isolated island of experience. Stop reaching so hard, humanity has done a pretty great job already of amassing knowledge about space, time and reality. No one man on the Shroomery is likely to be right with their contrarian theory on how reality works.

Read books and take your psychedelics. One without the other won't  do your head any good but drugs without books is the worst scenario of the lot. If you haven't the first clue about physics as a discipline then take a break from the shrooms for a week and listen to a couple of lectures. You'll be doing yourself a favour.

Edited by BlueZi (11/24/18 04:55 PM)

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: BlueZi]
    #25636861 -

You don't think humanity is behind in their discoveries? Maybe they are focused on too much logic instead of balancing the right-left brain. Like you said one without the other wont do. But if you are referring to me about reaching with what I mentioned. How so?

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Northerner]
    #25636986 -

Northerner said:
Yes, we could have a philosophical debate about whether anything actually exists.


That is in affect exactly what we are doing here from the perspective of time. No one is questioning the validity of science or dismissing its utility.

OP asked a metaphysical question, you're trying to dismiss it because science relies on time (cause and effect) as an a prior to exist which you seem to dogmatically cling to as the only kind of knowledge worth contemplating. That's a valid opinion, but it adds little to the discussion, and to act like it's a truth to impress upon others is blindingly egotistical.

It's clear that you don't like the topic, we get it, fortunately no one is making you participate. You might as well go troll the religion subforum and dismiss all of their discussions for a lack of empiracle evidence or go complain to people over in the art and music subforum that their paintings and drum beats don't make sense.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: The89thchamber]
    #25637038 -

The89thchamber said:
You don't think humanity is behind in their discoveries? Maybe they are focused on too much logic instead of balancing the right-left brain. Like you said one without the other wont do. But if you are referring to me about reaching with what I mentioned. How so?



I think this attitude is a defensive response to humanities prevelant history of dogmatic right brained thinking, namely when it comes to religion and their dismissal of science and empiracle evidence.

Unfortunately it's lead to a reactionary form of dogmatic left brained thinking where the person dismisses right brained thinking as invalid and effectively loses the ability to do so themselves. A healthy mind should be able to exercise both forms of thought, and they should not conflict but instead build off of one another.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: krypto2000]
    #25637118 -

krypto2000 said:
Northerner said:
Yes, we could have a philosophical debate about whether anything actually exists.


That is in affect exactly what we are doing here from the perspective of time. No one is questioning the validity of science or dismissing its utility.

OP asked a metaphysical question, you're trying to dismiss it because science relies on time (cause and effect) as an a prior to exist which you seem to dogmatically cling to as the only kind of knowledge worth contemplating. That's a valid opinion, but it adds little to the discussion, and to act like it's a truth to impress upon others is blindingly egotistical.

It's clear that you don't like the topic, we get it, fortunately no one is making you participate. You might as well go troll the religion subforum and dismiss all of their discussions for a lack of empiracle evidence or go complain to people over in the art and music subforum that their paintings and drum beats don't make sense.


Well actually I was pointing out how stupid the question is when you write it on a computer. If we scratched the same question on a rock with charcoal there might be some validity to it. This seems lost on you though man, the irony is completely wasted.

There's definitely questions to be asked about the fabric of reality and the fallibility of perception, and I'm all for it. But I refuse to act like a pontificating fool so I can appear woke, pretending that there's no such thing as a poorly thought out question.

And no, I'm not going to go and be mean to zealots and artists... not until I've finished killing all these puppies anyway.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Does time exist? [Re: Northerner]
    #25637142 -

Philosophy besets science, exercising right brained philosophical thought, what you call "stupid", leads one to valid approaches to bring into and expand the field of science among other things you are not appreciating. If you only have a scientific hammer in your cognitive tool box then you're going to see a lot of "stupid" nails.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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