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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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    #2556541 - 04/13/04 09:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 04:13 AM)


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OfflineThatDaltonGuy
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2556702 - 04/13/04 09:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i would say something amanita... pitch it theres too many risks involved.


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: ThatDaltonGuy]
    #2556739 - 04/13/04 10:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:18 PM)


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2560304 - 04/14/04 06:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:17 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2560577 - 04/14/04 07:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think your guess of Amanita pantherina is a good one, I've been seeing a few up here in Seattle. The cap is brownish, correct? Hard to tell in those pics...

DH


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: spores]
    #2560592 - 04/14/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:18 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2560607 - 04/14/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hrmm, it looks like it does in the pics. Not to that degree, but they wash/rub off pretty easily with a little rain or disturbance.

The ones I find up here look more like these:



DH


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: spores]
    #2560650 - 04/14/04 07:53 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:18 PM)


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Invisiblespores
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2560705 - 04/14/04 08:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In Mushrooms Demystified it says that A. cothurnata is primarily an eastern species. Then goes on to say a mushroom meeting the same description occurs in california, but is rare and that some mycologists consider A. cothurnata to be a variety of A. pantherina. I think I remember hearing the taxonomy of this group is being worked on and may be revised in the future, maybe toxicman will know more about it...

DH


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: spores]
    #2560808 - 04/14/04 09:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm. I have seen these several times in Oregon.

Here's a pic from last year.



It has been very dry in the Portland area. The dryness can cause the splitting of caps as you saw in your specimens. The degree to which scaling occurs varies greatly between specimens. I have seen the same species of amanita display profound scaling in one specimen and nearly no scaling in another, it is very enviromentaly dependant.

Joshua


Edited by Joshua (04/14/04 09:08 PM)


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: spores]
    #2560811 - 04/14/04 09:02 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:19 PM)


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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. [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2561495 - 04/15/04 12:10 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:20 PM)


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OfflineDobie
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2561536 - 04/15/04 12:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

dude that is still risky none the less. 99.999% wouldnt be enough for me to eat any mushroom in the amanita family. if your really curious about this specific mushrooms during the fall at the most there are always millions of em everywhere you walk :laugh:


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2561565 - 04/15/04 12:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

If you are wrong, you will need a liver transplant. No ifs ands or buts about it. Can you afford a liver transplant?


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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Registered: 02/17/04
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. [Re: Dobie]
    #2561598 - 04/15/04 12:40 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/03/13 03:20 PM)


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2561612 - 04/15/04 12:43 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I suggest strongly that you don't eat these. Start with muscaria if you want to experiment. Muscaria is a whole lot easier to identify.

I am very respectful of any amanitas and still have not tried them.

If you want to get high, smash your nuts with a hammer...it's a lot safer than relying on an ID for a picture of a specimen taken with a crappy camera over the internet that belongs to one of the most toxic families of mushrooms known.

Joshua


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InvisibleYrtlzmo
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Registered: 02/17/04
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. [Re: Joshua]
    #2561675 - 04/15/04 01:11 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by Yrtlzmo (02/07/13 12:23 PM)


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2561853 - 04/15/04 02:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I will probably try them out on Saturday after I measure them (I picked three of medium size) unless someone can say for sure that it is not an Amanita Pantherina.




Quote:

was never seriously considering consuming the mushroms




Quote:

I sure hope he (David Arora) sees this thread and can identify it for sure.




I guess it is hard for me to determine when you are serious or not. When speaking of any amanita fruit, I err on the side of being serious.

The nuts thing was just a joke trying to liven up a very serious issue.

Peace,
Joshua


--------------------
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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2562085 - 04/15/04 03:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Those are definitely Amanitas, but species is quite a bit tougher. There are several species that look like those. They do resemble A. pantherina, but without a microscope it's probably not possible to be sure which one they are. The lack of bruising and presence of a ring on the stem as well as a definite volva means that it probably contains the ibotenic acid and muscimol that the species close to A. pantherina have. The issue with them is that the concentrations of those toxins as well as other toxins which have not been adequately studied vary considerably from mushroom to mushroom, so eating them is risky for those who want to experience those toxins. People to try A. pantherina and end up in an emergency room are typically much sicker than those who tried A. muscaria.

One thing that is helpful for Amanita identification is a good, detailed view of the bottom of the stem, so we can see the volva or basal bulb from the side. Of course, you also need to make sure you get the entire base of the stem (dig if you need to).


I see that in a later post that you're considering eating them. Unless you can 100% verify that they're not the brown capped variety of A. phalloides (and explain in detail to somebody exactly how you know), you could be literally risking your life. I don't think they are, but not strongly enough to risk my life (or anybody else's) on it.

Before you even consider eating them you should at least do a Meixner test to verify the lack of amatoxins. You'll need concentrated HCl and newsprint (not all newsprint works, I've been told that the WSJ does). You need to squeeze a drop or two of juice onto the newsprint and let it dry. Do not use heat to dry it or allow sunlight to hit it. Draw a circle around where the drop dried and make another circle and label it "control". After it's dry, put a drop or two of the concentrated HCl in each circle. If the one from the mushroom turns bluish but not the control spot, then there are amatoxins.

Note that there are Amanitas that are deadly that do not contain amatoxins, where the deadly toxins are still unknown. Note also that the potential toxicity of most Amanitas is unknown. We don't know for sure exactly what species yours are, so you would be eating a potentially very dangerous mushroom for the possibility of the few hours high. When you throw in that Amanitas are responsible for about 95% of all mushroom fatalities, that doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.

If you still insist on doing it, save at least one specimen in good condition in the refrigerator in a paper or waxed paper bag. If you go to the emergency room, take that mushroom with you. They will call in a local mycologist to confirm exactly which species you ate. That way, if you get really sick, maybe the rest of the world can learn from your mistake. (No, I'm not joking. How do you think we learn about such things? If we have an actual specimen we might learn something that will help somebody else.)


Happy mushrooming!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/22/99
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Re: Oregon Mushroom Find (pictures) [Re: Joshua]
    #2562515 - 04/15/04 08:02 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hi, Regarding the presence of Amanita pantherina int he PNW.

I have also been wishy washy on this species inbthe PNW. I have seenb reports of its presence here and of poisonings which Andrew Weil wrote about in the Marriage opff the Sun and moon.

So I posed this question to Dr. Joseph Amiratti of the University of Washington's mycology department.

Q: Does Amanita pantherina exist in the PNW?

Joseph Amiratti's reply to my quiry:
Quote:

WELL, THAT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU TALK
TO, HOWEVER, MORPHOLOGICALLY WE HAVE A SIMILAR TAXON, BIOLOGICALLY WE ARE UNCERTAIN, HOW TO DEFINE SPECIES IN AGARICS IS UNCLEAR AT THE MOMENT.




mj


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