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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25443490 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's much better to pay Mexicans living in America to build American cars than it is to pay Mexicans living in Mexico to build American cars.


Pie in the sky theory that poor third world illegals are spending money to create wealth for US citizens. Why don't we import 50 million broke African's and live in an economic utopia?


Did anyone say bringing people in would actually make things better?  No

qman said:
Who pays are their free health care, education and criminal justice expenses?


They do, if we force employers to collect income tax.

qman said:
Why do many nations have strict economic rules for the immigrants that enter their nation?


Because some nations don't like dark skinned folk in their country.


So those policies are not economic in nature, it's rooted in racism?  That's a horrible accusation to make.   

What do they do with a "dark skinned folk" that has met their financial standards?

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman]
    #25443540 -

The people of Mexico are very racist themselves.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 1
    #25443603 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Because those immigrants are coming from poorer countries which we benefit from exploiting. If they were as wealthy as we were we would have no leverage to make them work for us and would thus have to work harder ourselves to maintain the standard of living that we have grown accustomed to today. This is the same reason minimum wage is not raised and social policies are not implimented, if they were billionaires would not be sustainable.

Edit: Seriously, how can you blame someone who has less than you for your problems when there's an entire controlling class of people that individually have more than we can even fathom?


Please find where I blame the immigrant, my issue has always been with the open border policy.

Why can't I take issue with the problems of immigration on US citizens and the way the elite operate?


I was not singling you out, I'm just speaking in general. My point was that immigrants are not the problem so much as someone to blame to distract us from the real problem. If you, I, and immigrants/the third world were all equally wealthy we would all blame the billionaires, instead we fight amongst ourselves while they keep shifting blame and stirring the pot to encourage it.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25444701 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Because those immigrants are coming from poorer countries which we benefit from exploiting. If they were as wealthy as we were we would have no leverage to make them work for us and would thus have to work harder ourselves to maintain the standard of living that we have grown accustomed to today. This is the same reason minimum wage is not raised and social policies are not implimented, if they were billionaires would not be sustainable.

Edit: Seriously, how can you blame someone who has less than you for your problems when there's an entire controlling class of people that individually have more than we can even fathom?


Please find where I blame the immigrant, my issue has always been with the open border policy.

Why can't I take issue with the problems of immigration on US citizens and the way the elite operate?


I was not singling you out, I'm just speaking in general. My point was that immigrants are not the problem so much as someone to blame to distract us from the real problem. If you, I, and immigrants/the third world were all equally wealthy we would all blame the billionaires, instead we fight amongst ourselves while they keep shifting blame and stirring the pot to encourage it.


Again, I going to continue to point out the problems with illegal/legal immigration. If you think it's a distraction to the "real problems", so be it.

There shouldn't be any issue addressing different sets of problems simultaneously, it happens all the time.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 2
    #25444798 -

qman said:
There shouldn't be any issue addressing different sets of problems simultaneously, it happens all the time.


Unless the issue pertains to the experiences of minorities?

Quote:
qman said:
Why start a movement that excludes the vast majority of the population on an issue that affects every demographic?  He's a race baiting POS.

This movement is a failure on so many different levels because of the way he framed the issue. If you make it a black or white issue, you're going to have a conflict and that's exactly what we have today.  He made this whole thing even worse.



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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 3
    #25444799 -

Sure, but the problem is no one is addressing the billionaire problem at all.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000]
    #25445160 -

krypto2000 said:
Sure, but the problem is no one is addressing the billionaire problem at all.


I think Bernie addressed this issue pretty well in the last election, but of course the MSM didn't cover that aspect very much and even suggested he was "radical" socialist.

Today, people like Tucker are starting to address the massive wealth and income inequality. Obviously, our current political and MSM system continues to ignore this glaring reality.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25445177 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
There shouldn't be any issue addressing different sets of problems simultaneously, it happens all the time.


Unless the issue pertains to the experiences of minorities?

Quote:
qman said:
Why start a movement that excludes the vast majority of the population on an issue that affects every demographic?  He's a race baiting POS.

This movement is a failure on so many different levels because of the way he framed the issue. If you make it a black or white issue, you're going to have a conflict and that's exactly what we have today.  He made this whole thing even worse.



Who suggested those experiences are exclusive to non-whites, when that's clearly not the case?  Kaepernick.

Why would I support a movement that highlights their experiences, and ignores the same experience simply because of the color of my skin?

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 2
    #25445199 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Sure, but the problem is no one is addressing the billionaire problem at all.


I think Bernie addressed this issue pretty well in the last election, but of course the MSM didn't cover that aspect very much and even suggested he was "radical" socialist.

Today, people like Tucker are starting to address the massive wealth and income inequality. Obviously, our current political and MSM system continues to ignore this glaring reality.


I agree, I was a Bernie supporter, but I mean no one is actually doing anything about it. It's all talk. Whether it's actually beneficial or not all other issues are actively being engaged and I have no doubt will continue to be. I'm not saying we shouldn't still discuss those issues but the billionaire issue should be by at large our major focus, that is THE problem right now. It's like a proverbial elephant in the room and 9.5 out of 10 people are arguing over whether we should wash the dishes or pick up the trash. As I see it it really doesn't matter if the dishes are even cleaned because if we don't do something with this god damned elephant they're all going to be smashed and the entire room will become trash.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000]
    #25445349 -

:thatsaten:

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 1
    #25445368 -

I saw Carlson asking those hard questions. He was debating a libertarian about the low wages for Amazon workers and the fact that some of them need food stamps to survive. The American people pay for ffoodstamps, which was the talking point. The libertarian argued that the wages were fine, but to cut the food stamp program. It was a good debate and I was torn in the middle.

Perhaps we should more clearly define what Monopolies are?


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (09/08/18 05:11 PM)

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25445456 -

its not the definition we need. we need a trust buster like teddy roosevelt.


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πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 2
    #25445689 -

qman said:
Why would I support a movement that highlights their experiences, and ignores the same experience simply because of the color of my skin?


There shouldn't be any issue addressing different sets of problems simultaneously, it happens all the time.


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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25445710 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Sure, but the problem is no one is addressing the billionaire problem at all.


I think Bernie addressed this issue pretty well in the last election, but of course the MSM didn't cover that aspect very much and even suggested he was "radical" socialist.

Today, people like Tucker are starting to address the massive wealth and income inequality. Obviously, our current political and MSM system continues to ignore this glaring reality.


I agree, I was a Bernie supporter, but I mean no one is actually doing anything about it. It's all talk. Whether it's actually beneficial or not all other issues are actively being engaged and I have no doubt will continue to be. I'm not saying we shouldn't still discuss those issues but the billionaire issue should be by at large our major focus, that is THE problem right now. It's like a proverbial elephant in the room and 9.5 out of 10 people are arguing over whether we should wash the dishes or pick up the trash. As I see it it really doesn't matter if the dishes are even cleaned because if we don't do something with this god damned elephant they're all going to be smashed and the entire room will become trash.


Probably because sufficiently addressing wealth inequality requires a serious upheaval of our current status quo; whereas blaming the 'others' of society is mostly just business as usual.

People are more devoted to "order" than to justice; prefer a negative peace which is the absence of tension over a positive peace which is the presence of justice.

Is this because people are naturally lazy? Or perhaps it's because the billionaires who stand to lose the most also currently exhibit the most power over our society and put every effort into keeping the masses complacent?

If we are supposed to vote with our dollars under capitalism in order to shape our society, and a tiny minority of people control the vast majority of wealth, would it not be reasonable to expect that this tiny minority would be the ones controlling the development of society?

I've stopped waiting for the masses to rise up in revolution, but I still am unwilling to submit. Insurrection is my conclusion. Not revolution - insurrection.


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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #25445719 -

I think cops treat everyone unfairly except rich people. I am white. I support BLM because it brings exposure to police brutality. As I see it this helps everyone. I also see dismissing them, belittling them, or whatever because white people are not specifically included has the opposite effect and instead empowers the police.

Why would you not support their movement? Do you think if they stopped targeting black people so much that they would instead target ehite people? I just don't see anything to lose, at worst someone else gains something, at best we all do (except the abusive police and those benefiting from the prison industrial complex). It's like saying if we can't fix the entire problem all at once we shouldn't fix any of it.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25445727 -

one reason not support BLM is they stoke racial tension and end up creating riots which in turn get more blacks locked up and killed by the police. pretty much the opposite reason for its existence.
BLM was funded by soros as an election wedge to push minorities and libshits away from the republican party. if you look closely BLM ran out of money once the open society foundation stopped funding them.


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πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό    πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25445754 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
Why would I support a movement that highlights their experiences, and ignores the same experience simply because of the color of my skin?


There shouldn't be any issue addressing different sets of problems simultaneously, it happens all the time.


It's the same problem, there's nothing different about it. Police brutality affects all US citizens regardless of race.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: krypto2000]
    #25445778 -

krypto2000 said:
I think cops treat everyone unfairly except rich people. I am white. I support BLM because it brings exposure to police brutality. As I see it this helps everyone. I also see dismissing them, belittling them, or whatever because white people are not specifically included has the opposite effect and instead empowers the police.

Why would you not support their movement? Do you think if they stopped targeting black people so much that they would instead target ehite people? I just don't see anything to lose, at worst someone else gains something, at best we all do (except the abusive police and those benefiting from the prison industrial complex). It's like saying if we can't fix the entire problem all at once we shouldn't fix any of it.


Why would I support a movement that fails to acknowledge the same issues that affect everybody?  They divide people down racial lines, that's very problematic.

What if I suggested I want to raise the minimum wage for white people?  I mean at worst at least white people will make more money. We could one day work on a higher wage for non-whites, but why stop progress, correct?

Let's exclude people with identical issues and then become irate when there's a lack of unity.

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: JHOVA] * 2
    #25445781 -

JHOVA said:
one reason not support BLM is they stoke racial tension and end up creating riots which in turn get more blacks locked up and killed by the police. pretty much the opposite reason for its existence.
BLM was funded by soros as an election wedge to push minorities and libshits away from the republican party. if you look closely BLM ran out of money once the open society foundation stopped funding them.


That reads like a bunch of conspiracy theory not backed up by evidence, I suspect it is. BLM is also a disorganized movement, there is no central organizers or group so to say "they ran out of funding" doesn't even make sense. Did the hippie movement die out in the 60's bc their Jew backers stopped cutting them checks?

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Re: Trump cancels pay raise for federal workers [Re: qman] * 1
    #25445785 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
I think cops treat everyone unfairly except rich people. I am white. I support BLM because it brings exposure to police brutality. As I see it this helps everyone. I also see dismissing them, belittling them, or whatever because white people are not specifically included has the opposite effect and instead empowers the police.

Why would you not support their movement? Do you think if they stopped targeting black people so much that they would instead target ehite people? I just don't see anything to lose, at worst someone else gains something, at best we all do (except the abusive police and those benefiting from the prison industrial complex). It's like saying if we can't fix the entire problem all at once we shouldn't fix any of it.


Why would I support a movement that fails to acknowledge the same issues that affect everybody?  They divide people down racial lines, that's very problematic.

What if I suggested I want to raise the minimum wage for white people?  I mean at worst at least white people will make more money. We could one day work on a higher wage for non-whites, but why stop progress, correct?

Let's exclude people with identical issues and then become irate when there's a lack of unity.


There are plenty of white people out there supporting them and they are welcomed, they do not push them away or anything. The difference with your wage analogy is to raise the minimum wage only for white people would then create a disadvantage for everyone who is not white. If you said to end under the table payments below minimum wage for white people that would be more equivalent. Do you not see the difference?

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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