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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua
    #24968507 -

l
    Posted in OTD but it belongs here.

Ive come to realize having empathy for others and the world throughout life, is more of a cognitive discipline than it is a spiritual discipline, it trains you and your mind to think a certain way, in the same way someone without as much empathy thinks a certain way. There is no spiritual essence or presence that is observing your empathy and planning to reward you for it or the choices you make based on it. One can view the world as in need of help and live their whole life thinking of how to help people that won’t help themselves and in the end rob themselves of a life where they could of just focused on themselves.  They can justify their losses by considering themselves a spiritual being but at the end of it all that’s just what they tell themselves and ingrain into their own ego to get by. They are just as empty as the selfishly egotistical non spiritual people they discern themselves from

I think it’s better to think logically and rationally, take care of ones own needs first and help those who ask for help or can clearly use it when you can. I’ve missed a lot of oppurtunities to better my life because I was worried about other people and the worlds problems thinking if I just care a whole lot I’ll become part of the solution one day.  Now I’m realizing that was just a convienient lie I told myself over and over again to feel more comfortable about the injustices and suffering I saw al the time but couldn’t do anything about.  Injustices and suffering I most likely always knew were inescapable as I hid from them

Just had to write this down somewhere

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24968541 -

How do you KNOW that your/my/our kindnesses in life aren't being kept track of? How do you KNOW that they aren't what will be placed on the scale of reckoning when we move on? Sounds to me like you're assuming things in order to reconcile being selfish. I admit that I have no idea what we're doing here or how the universe works, but love can't be wrong.  :sunny:

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: PsiloPutty]
    #24968564 -

PsiloPutty said:
How do you KNOW that your/my/our kindnesses in life aren't being kept track of? How do you KNOW that they aren't what will be placed on the scale of reckoning when we move on? Sounds to me like you're assuming things in order to reconcile being selfish. I admit that I have no idea what we're doing here or how the universe works, but love can't be wrong.  :sunny:


Maybe they are.  But guess what.  After 25 years of always being the nice guy and ending up with nothing out of it while I watch my friends who balance being selfish and nice ending up with something I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve been way too empathetic especially for people who did not deserve my empathy whatsoever to the point of being taken advantage of for being the nice kind spiritual guy.    And then even when I would be taken advantage of I would use my spirituality as an excuse to not get angry about it or prevent it from happening again. So this why I feel sure about it being more of a individual based cognitive decision than some objective practice that matters to something more than yourself.  We create our own destinies and if there’s something watching me do so, I’m going to put on a good show and make good choices for ME from now on and If someone in need stumbles onto my stage then I’ll help them if they seem the type to use help wisely. If everyone did this the world would be better for it. Subscribing to an ideology of empathy for all 24/7 is just as bad as spoiling a child in youth to be a nice parent.  It’s a disservice.

If love can’t be wrong, neither can tough love.

Edited by NOUS333 (02/05/18 10:06 AM)

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: PsiloPutty]
    #24968614 -

If you truly care about someone you would crawl in the fucking dirt if it meant they could rest a little easier, logic be damned.


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High as hell and low as heaven will go.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #24968736 -

I love when conservatives try to justify being assholes


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: koods]
    #24968774 -

koods said:
I love when conservatives try to justify being assholes


I love when koods continues to assume political associations of every total stranger he meets online based on his own limited social perspective.


Get lost.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #24968790 -

spirit_shadow said:
If you truly care about someone you would crawl in the fucking dirt if it meant they could rest a little easier, logic be damned.


Yea.  Sure.  That’s fine.  I’m not talking about people in your life you care about or even total strangers who obviously could use help. I’m talking about just anyone off the street and spending your entire life worrying about the worlds problems to the extent of never working on your own which is what I was doing most of My own life.  I would get swindled on drug deals for ex and let the person do it cause I knew they needed the money for something and then later on down the road when they got their shit together they’d remember me as The person they could take advantage of. Some people don’t see things as a generous act they just see themselves getting ahead in a situation and give themselves the credit for it. Another example. I’ve quit jobs because the management was doing things I thought to be unethical.  I took food off my table to make a point they most likely never got, and some other person took the job and the management kept on without  a second thought.  I’ve passed up opportunities to get better work in life because I had this spirituality complex where I thought passing them up was going to make me better than everyone who just swallowed their pride and took them. It didn’t   

Maybe when I die some thing will tell me I’m wrong and I did the right thing but I don’t think so.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24968829 -

"After 25 years of always being the nice guy and ending up with nothing out of it while I watch my friends who balance being selfish and nice ending up with something...."

What do you expect or hope to get from your niceness? What have your friends gotten from their lack of it? To give kindness only when there exists the likelihood of receiving something for it is to engage in some sad form of commerce. I'm not saying we should or can all be Ghandi, but it sounds like you're viewing your human interactions in the wrong way, at least to my way of thinking.
I bet you're a good person, and I hope you reconsider your position in favor of a healthier one. That's not meant to sound haughty. It's just that building emotional walls has never been an ingredient for a happy life, friend.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: PsiloPutty]
    #24968844 -

PsiloPutty said:
"After 25 years of always being the nice guy and ending up with nothing out of it while I watch my friends who balance being selfish and nice ending up with something...."

What do you expect or hope to get from your niceness? What have your friends gotten from their lack of it? To give kindness only when there exists the likelihood of receiving something for it is to engage in some sad form of commerce. I'm not saying we should or can all be Ghandi, but it sounds like you're viewing your human interactions in the wrong way, at least to my way of thinking.
I bet you're a good person, and I hope you reconsider your position in favor of a healthier one. That's not meant to sound haughty. It's just that building emotional walls has never been an ingredient for a happy life, friend.


I didn’t mean to imply I was expecting material stuff out of it.  More so I meant looking back I just see it caused more detriment in my life than benefit. I agree you shouldn’t go around being kind with the expectation of getting anything out of it. I’m saying I was just being flat out too kind to people that didn’t deserve it and In doing so I wasn’t respecting myself or my future. I was fucking up my priorities and putting this identity of being a spiritual person before everything.

And like I said in the title of this. Empathy seems to me to be a cognitive discipline. We apply it individually as need be I was just applying it 24/7 and I don’t think for me personally that was a smart move. I’m not saying everyone should ditch it completely

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24968909 -

I get what you're saying. Just don't swing to the other side of the pendulum in an effort to be balanced. That'd be far worse.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: PsiloPutty]
    #24968976 -

Ok after more reading I understand a bit better. Yeah op, it sucks the world has come to a place where you have to be cautious helping people :/


--------------------
High as hell and low as heaven will go.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #24969147 -

I don't get it. Why would you call empathy a 'discipline' at all?


--------------------
"Be kind whenever possible.
It is always possible."

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: Eternal Quest]
    #24969201 -

Eternal Quest said:
I don't get it. Why would you call empathy a 'discipline' at all?


Just the wording I used.  Cognitive discipline.  Mental choice.  If you can do better go ahead and give me a suggestion.  This isn’t my most thought out post I’ll admit

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24969254 -

I think some people only do kind deeds because they want recognition for them, which makes their kind deeds really selfish. 

It's a fact that acts of kindness give us a high feeling, so I wonder how many people are only being kind because they have thought about why it's good to help others, or if they are just addicted to the feel good chems released by the brain upon completion of their act of kindness.

It seems like many people wear masks, they do kind acts towards others and they build this image up to the community around them so that way the acts of ill mind they do towards someone behind closed doors will go unnoticed.

Much of this life seems like a shit show, like it's mostly deception with not many people truly being decent through and through.


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©️

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: Lucis]
    #24969278 -

Fennario said:
I think some people only do kind deeds because they want recognition for them, which makes their kind deeds really selfish. 

It's a fact that acts of kindness give us a high feeling, so I wonder how many people are only being kind because they have thought about why it's good to help others, or if they are just addicted to the feel good chems released by the brain upon completion of their act of kindness.

It seems like many people wear masks, they do kind acts towards others and they build this image up to the community around them so that way the acts of ill mind they do towards someone behind closed doors will go unnoticed.

Much of this life seems like a shit show, like it's mostly deception with not many people truly being decent through and through.


I agree.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24969314 -

Yeah, forget about "spirituality". It doesn't mean anything. Empathy and love are products of biological evolution, just like fear and anger- just like the ability to reason. You can't let any one of them run the show. It's all about balance

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24969323 -

NOUS333 said:
Eternal Quest said:
I don't get it. Why would you call empathy a 'discipline' at all?


Just the wording I used.  Cognitive discipline.  Mental choice.  If you can do better go ahead and give me a suggestion.  This isn’t my most thought out post I’ll admit


Thing is both the words 'discipline' and 'choice' underline the fact that you are, to a certain extent, choosing to behave like that.
But what if you think of empathy and kindness as a 'state' instead.
You don't get to choose, you can't switch it on and off at your own convenience. Doesn't matter how much it hurts, you'll always end up acting for others first because that's just the way you are.
I've tried to be different, to put myself first, to act in a selfish fashion and screw people around me over. It only makes me feel sick with disgust for myself. No, thanks, I'll just rather continue on my merry way :smile:


--------------------
"Be kind whenever possible.
It is always possible."

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: Eternal Quest]
    #24969332 -

Eternal Quest said:
NOUS333 said:
Eternal Quest said:
I don't get it. Why would you call empathy a 'discipline' at all?


Just the wording I used.  Cognitive discipline.  Mental choice.  If you can do better go ahead and give me a suggestion.  This isn’t my most thought out post I’ll admit


Thing is both the words 'discipline' and 'choice' underline the fact that you are, to a certain extent, choosing to behave like that.
But what if you think of empathy and kindness as a 'state' instead.
You don't get to choose, you can't switch it on and off at your own convenience. Doesn't matter how much it hurts, you'll always end up acting for others first because that's just the way you are.
I've tried to be different, to put myself first, to act in a selfish fashion and screw people around me over. It only makes me feel sick with disgust for myself. No, thanks, I'll just rather continue on my merry way :smile:


Well I’m not implying nor do I plan on just treating everyone like shit. Just respecting myself and my priorities more than I care about everyone else’s problems and the ills going on in the world. 

And some people are just naturally more empathetic but through practicing some metacognition we can all learn to at least be aware of how we are and hopefully balance everything in our favor.

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Re: Having empathy more of a cognitive discipline than spiritua [Re: NOUS333]
    #24969366 -

In life there are givers and there are takers.  If the givers aren't careful, the takers will take everything the givers have to offer until there are none left.

It isn't that you're being punished for having empathy.  It's that the people you are interacting with lack empathy in their interactions with you and you get to deal with the consequence.

Also make sure that your empathy isn't actually co-dependence masquerading as empathy.


--------------------
Confucius say: He who sticks drugs in butthole has head up ass. 


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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