koods said:

I gotta say it's fascinating as fuck to watch. We're talking about actual radicalization, not just an evolution of political philosophy. It's like a total reprogramming of someone's core values.

The best example I can think of is Bodhi once being so angry about the treatment of natives that he wanted to kill white people, and in a few short months was literally spewing white nationalist talking points and praising Trump for approving the Dakota access pipeline.

Truly fascinating.

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Can provide no accounting for Bodhi,
but have seen some interesting developments in native culture particularly in Manitoba these past few years
just various little things

The First Nations found representation with the Canadian LGBTQ2+ community
due to sentiments of Two-Spirit as a form of gender expression
early this year there was a reservation-centric beating of a trans woman for being 'a fag' tho
isolated instances of violence may not mean much in America
it was notable at the time as this took place in an area with a population of less than 100 people

There was also a bit of a push around Winnipeg
to try and get BLM to acknowledge/run alongside a Native Lives Matter campaign
but things did not really take hold,
and know some people in Winnipeg-area that view it as as disrespective counter-point after initially supporting BLM

but there is also a sentiment of globalism being pushed towards North America by European nations
and the EU has been critical of some First Nations cultural practices,
trying to get the ('White-man's')Canadian government to shut them down
with Trump being the antithesis of Trudeau on affairs of globalism

Even having Native and Métis friends, do not feel a close enough connection to the issue to do more than speculate on what may drive it
but do think there has been a bit of a sense of alienation among First Nations in Canada
where BLM, Refugees (which Canada has been very vocal in accepting) and Trans issues have gotten worldwide attention
but the crises impacting First Nations have not

Will try to make a point of asking, but do not really know anyone who is either anti-white or anti-globalist to extremes
just aware of some areas where frustrations have been voiced
also, there is not always necessarily a uniform voice for the First Nations
and what happens in Manitoba may not be reflected in Saskatchwan
just some sort of general points from Canada if you are as fascinated in the phenomenon as you say

Kryptos said:

Real wages can go down all they want, standard of living is still up. Again, we are able to communicate without ever seeing each other while taking a crap. This is literally unheard of half a century ago. I know wages are going down and all that, my point is that the poorest of the poor today live like the kings of old.

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Quote:

And no, there isn't enough money to go around. Not enough money to have kids and support them. 5000 years ago there wasn't enough fire to go around, and the tigers ate your kids before you got to support them. 500 years ago, not enough food, and 75% of your kids died to disease by age 10. 50 years ago, well, the population was smaller. Too bad condoms were borderline illegal, would've probably slowed some of this shit down...

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Quote:

My point is, all of these things are caused by some major systemic issues. Complete reorganization will require a lot of work.

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Quote:

Population stabilizes based on the carrying capacity of the system. If the population exceeds the carrying capacity, the population corrects back down. So, either we put some scientists to work on some GMO-and-solar-flavored expansions to the carrying capacity of the environment, or we get use to a population correction.

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Quote:

Parts of the world starve, parts of the world's hearts detonate at age 35, and part just don't have health insurance.

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Quote:

Suicide is a symptom of despair caused by that realization in some form, the realization that you and your life is a resource to be used whether you want it to be or not, by powers largely outside your control. Some people can work in the system, some people can't. It's all part of the natural growth and stagnation cycle.

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Quote:

Heck, let's go back to the OP a little bit more-the whole siege mentality thing. As soon as people are no longer either totally in control or slowly gaining ground, they feel like they are losing. It's why the neo-nazis and alt-right keep popping up everywhere fighting for white people. To them, the slight erosion of an utter domination is too much to bear. Think they're okay living equal to their fellow man? As long as their "equal" has an extra 500sq feet of floor space more than their neighbor...

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Quote:

Humans have long evolved to take and not give. Heck, it's wired into our biology. It's why it's easier to get fat than to lose fat.

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Quote:

Everyone wants a leg up. So far, capitalism has provided a good way to do that, and I think inflation is a genius way of doing so.

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Eventually, the cost of science exceeds the effectiveness of the boundary extension, and we choke. Fallen empires. Rome. ...

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huh?

koods said:

World wide homicide rates have never been lower in all of human history

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Quote:

to try and get BLM to acknowledge/run alongside a Native Lives Matter campaign
but things did not really take hold,
and know some people in Winnipeg-area that view it as as disrespective counter-point after initially supporting BLM

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Quote:

there is also a sentiment of globalism being pushed towards North America by European nations
and the EU has been critical of some First Nations cultural practices,
trying to get the ('White-man's')Canadian government to shut them down
with Trump being the antithesis of Trudeau on affairs of globalism

---

Quote:

but do think there has been a bit of a sense of alienation among First Nations in Canada
where BLM, Refugees (which Canada has been very vocal in accepting) and Trans issues have gotten worldwide attention
but the crises impacting First Nations have not

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Tipote said:

Thanks for your post, as always.

Quote:

to try and get BLM to acknowledge/run alongside a Native Lives Matter campaign
but things did not really take hold,
and know some people in Winnipeg-area that view it as as disrespective counter-point after initially supporting BLM

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sorry, can you clarify this point. You mean some saw black lives matter as disrespectful to the native lives matter movement?

do you have a thought as to why things "didn't take hold"? and how that is measured..

BLM have shown solidarity with numerous groups.
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

there is also a sentiment of globalism being pushed towards North America by European nations
and the EU has been critical of some First Nations cultural practices,
trying to get the ('White-man's')Canadian government to shut them down
with Trump being the antithesis of Trudeau on affairs of globalism

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globalism pushed by the EU? In what way are you referring?

and can you give me an example of the practices that the EU is critical of? I haven't heard this before.
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

but do think there has been a bit of a sense of alienation among First Nations in Canada
where BLM, Refugees (which Canada has been very vocal in accepting) and Trans issues have gotten worldwide attention
but the crises impacting First Nations have not

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Absolutely there has no doubt been a long history of alienation.

I would say that the standing rock resistance did get worldwide attention at least.

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Personally made note that you referred to a US-based protest
rather than the protests that were going on in Canada regarding Canadian First Nations protesting pipelines in Canada

Bubbles85 said:

What and supporting the radical left as you do is not radicalization?

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I dont think I said that...

Do you have anything to contribute?

Tantrika said:

Was told it was disrespectful that they supported BLM,
but BLM did apparently little to nothing in return

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Quote:

but, also, part of the First Nations push was also towards an 'All Lives Matter' sentiment
which apparently caught some steam in Ontario
but was repeatedly and vehemently opposed at the more international level of BLM

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Quote:

One of the biggest points of contention is the seal hunt
It is often still regarded as a traditional and important means of sustenance and trade...

as she puts it -- on the international scale people seem to care more about the lives of seals in Canada than the lives of Natives in Canada

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Quote:

at a personal level, this is where my distaste for globalism comes in; it pushes homogeneity onto diverse populations

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Quote:

there is also issues with some reservations not having running water or proper heating
and criticisms that 'we' (Canada) should not be spending on bringing in refugees
when we still need to be spending on issues within our Indigenous communities
with the refugee crisis being portrayed as a globalist issue
because it is Canada going out of 'our' way to alleviate the refugee crisis in Europe

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Quote:

Personally made note that you referred to a US-based protest
rather than the protests that were going on in Canada regarding Canadian First Nations protesting pipelines in Canada

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Tipote said:

Tantrika said:

Was told it was disrespectful that they supported BLM,
but BLM did apparently little to nothing in return

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specifically relating to Canadian First nations or in general to Native lives matter?

I've personally seen a bit of mutual recognition and solidarity between palestinians, blm and nlm but there is always more room for support.

I know its not in Canada, thus supporting your point, but I saw this the other day:
Colin Kaepernick joins Native Americans for UnThanksgiving Day protest on Alcatraz
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

but, also, part of the First Nations push was also towards an 'All Lives Matter' sentiment
which apparently caught some steam in Ontario
but was repeatedly and vehemently opposed at the more international level of BLM

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is this continuing?

I can see the logic of an all lives matter campaign actually led by relevant groups. Although ..it is infuriating for many groups to hear "all lives matter" because it is usually used to dismiss their causes. It would be clever the turn that upon those people though.
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

at a personal level, this is where my distaste for globalism comes in; it pushes homogeneity onto diverse populations

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I usually hear the opposite argument from some here - that globalism pushes diversity on homogeneous societies.
but I get your point relating to global trade regulations.
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

there is also issues with some reservations not having running water or proper heating
and criticisms that 'we' (Canada) should not be spending on bringing in refugees
when we still need to be spending on issues within our Indigenous communities
with the refugee crisis being portrayed as a globalist issue
because it is Canada going out of 'our' way to alleviate the refugee crisis in Europe

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Yes, I've heard that natives have an appalling lack of services and infrastructure. Thats not acceptable..

I can appreciate that it causes anger when the state is more keen to help refugees rather than natives.

If I had my way, they would all get the help they need.
...

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Tipote said:

...

Quote:

Personally made note that you referred to a US-based protest
rather than the protests that were going on in Canada regarding Canadian First Nations protesting pipelines in Canada

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Good point. I was speaking generally of native americans, not specifically canadian.. but I realise you were speaking specifically.. so my bad.

You're right, first nations are not getting the attention they deserve, particularly those in Canada.

Thanks for the info.

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Can totally respect your doing so, was just poking fun due to timing
it is to my comprehension that BLM helped in protesting and raising awareness for Standing Rock
but pipelines were just one facet of issues facing Canadian First Nations

thanks for taking the time to read and ponder on some of these things

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

The younger generations have become so disenfranchised theyre reaching out for anything to grab hold to. The neoliberal concensus has failed us all to varying degrees, that we all know.

But why?

Ask a recently radicalized leftist, theyll tell you our oligarchic capitalist system shut out the 99%.

Ask a recently radicalized right winger, theyll tell you thr globalists are using minorities to destroy Western civilization.

In my mind, only one of them sounds reasonable. But not everyone is as smart as I am.

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There's a degree of truth in BOTH of those movements.

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The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

The younger generations have become so disenfranchised theyre reaching out for anything to grab hold to. The neoliberal concensus has failed us all to varying degrees, that we all know.

But why?

Ask a recently radicalized leftist, theyll tell you our oligarchic capitalist system shut out the 99%.

Ask a recently radicalized right winger, theyll tell you thr globalists are using minorities to destroy Western civilization.

In my mind, only one of them sounds reasonable. But not everyone is as smart as I am.

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There's a degree of truth in BOTH of those movements.

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Cyanide kills people.
Water kills people.

Theres a degree of truth in BOTH of those statements.

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Enough of the strawmans.

"the globalists are using minorities to destroy Western civilization"

I don't think it's any mystery that the capitalists/globalists are using unrestricted migration of all sorts of people into the US/EU to meet their goals.

If that migration happens to lower the standard of living for 99% of the existing population (which it has) they don't really care at all, hell they even have economically poor liberals defending their policy.

I don't think they are intentionally trying to "destroy Western civilization", but they wouldn't care if they were destroying peoples homelands to meet their economic goals.

qman said:

If that migration happens to lower the standard of living for 99% of the existing population (which it has)

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shivas.wisdom said:

qman said:

If that migration happens to lower the standard of living for 99% of the existing population (which it has)

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Today I learned I'm part of the 1%

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1% of what exactly? 

The Ecstatic said:

And lets all pretend like qman isnt equivocating the merits of those ideas, lest he gets offended and reiterates the pointlessness of his point: "I only said a DEGREE of truth!"

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But this statement is 100% truth?  "our oligarchic capitalist system shut out the 99%"?    No, but there is "a DEGREE of truth" to it.