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Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid?
    #24788605 -




I was in my local swimming pool the other day, minding my own business, perfecting my technique I developed to practice my ability to switch my fear off as well as submitting to the water, and through it, the universe by unbridled prostration.

I had taken it up onto a platform 1.5ft over the water where I stood with my back facing the water, straight like an arrow, I'd let the fear extinguish, I'd drop myself flat like a board, backwards into the water, a complete stillness in my body and mind. If there was any sort of fear left to me, the resulting splash would be quite painful (you know how that can be) but if all fear left me and peace filled me, there would be absolutely ZERO pain, I would be relaxed right up to the pores of my skin and because of it, the shockwave ripple passing through me would not plow through resistance, which is the source of that pain.

I weigh 166kg = 365lbs, a pound for every day of the year, I'm big as a sumo wrestler, you can imagine the splash is thunderous, more befitting something you'd hear at Seaworld than in a pool, and sends spray and waves in all directions as if a dolphin indeed had made a ten foot backflip :yesnod: When I first started doing it the lifeguards were a bit alarmed, I explained throwing a bit of physics and common sense in the mix, demonstrated it, they had a team talk and approved it.

Its a feat and a half of overcoming fear because you essentially make a lethal fall, except into a medium that will not kill you. I started with forward falls, then backward falls, at the waterline and worked up to the 1.5ft platform I've tried higher but then the velocity of the fall became too high for me to consider it a responsible activity.

Anyway, I was doing so and 2 boys, give or take a year maybe 11-12yo or so, walked up to me and asked whether it hurt. I laid down a brief explanation that its an exercise thats good for health and courage if you do it right, but if you fear and doubt it will hurt so that no, in fact it didnt hurt at all, because it would be stupid to do something that hurt.

They wanted to try it too. I suggested starting at water level but one of them lectured me on Kid Physics 101: "we can't do that because then you are closer to the water and it would hurt more." I decided that if that was the manifest belief it would help them not be afraid, so I went along with that. The fall was predictably problematic for both, they still wanted to try.

I added some suggestion intended to ease the fear of one of them and he was like "OK I got this" He stood heels over the edge, on the platform, closed his eyes trying to find the off button of his fear..

At this point his asshole buddy gave him a Mortal Combat style punch square in the nuts, not really hard but, I would have doubled over too, he then shoved him over the edge and jumped after him shoving him under water briefly before letting him back up and mutual laughter ensued.

I watched this Special Ops style assassination attempt unfold, watched subsequent behavior closely. The "victim" apparently was shocked but amused and appeared used to these ambushes of his extraverted buddy and no animosity ensued.

I gave a little lecture about consequences of actions, by no means heavyhanded but to explain that there was risk involved and to offer the brazen warrior a bit of empathy insight into the situation of his buddy subjected to this attack. The right words well delivered, they took the instruction. They proceeded for about 5 falls more. Unsurprisingly soon the brazen kid aced it to perfection and the ambushed kid booked progress but didn't fully succeed in the objective, being on guard against possible gratuitous nut shots.

This longwinded tale takes us to the dilemma of this topic:

Do you consider the rather efficient assault of the brazen kid upon his buddy the handiwork of a Francis Begbie in the making, in other words "Psycho Kid" or do you consider this potentially worrisome but still part of the spectrum of behaviors of boys growing up, ie. "Boys Will Be Boys"?

What would YOU have done in this situation? Please fill out the poll and take part in the discussion.


.
What best describes the incident to you?
You may choose only one
How acceptable was this incident to you? to you?
You may choose only one
What is your bullying history?
You may choose only one
What descriptor would best describe your gender identity?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 11/16/17 08:09 PM until the end of time
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante] * 3
    #24788650 -

This one nutshot, in a vacuum, isn’t enough for me to consider the kid a “psycho”, or budding psycho, or whatever.  I probably would’ve ignored it.  For all you know, the kid who got punched in the dick is 9/10 times the puncher, and the kid you’re wondering if he’s a psycho saw this one chance to give it back to him a bit.  However, if there’s a larger pattern of the allegedly psycho kid doing stuff like this, it needs to be addressed.  But based on this one instance, I’d say I don’t have enough info to call it.  Begbie is a total maniac who’s addicted to random assault; that’s a bit different than playfully pushing a friend into the pool. 

That said, I’m not a fan at all of “boys will be boys”.  I mean, you can’t label every incident between kids as bullying, but it’s also true that a lot of behaviors that need to be corrected by adults get written off as “boys will be boys”.  My sister and I had a discussion about that a few months ago at a playground when my (then) two year old shoved her son for no reason; I recognize that kids need to play in their own way to relate to each other, but at a certain point, parents (or whomever) need to intervene when lines are crossed.  It’s up to the adults to determine where the line is, but I feel like some people are too permissive in that sense.

I didn’t vote in the poll, but these are my thoughts on the subject.

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24788654 -

And guys, its a VERY intimidating thing to do, if you actually stand at the water's edge (let alone 1.5ft higher) to just keel over flat, forward or backward, into the water. That takes serious courage. Really, next time you are in a pool, try it. Do it right, zero pain, if you got fear, ow-to-the-fucking-OUCH. See if you can make it work and let me know.

People of all ages have begun emulating it, its quite funny as that was never intended, and lifeguards remarked it raises general pool mood and harmony, even making regular troublemakers less troublesome.

I notice the pattern that fear increases with age, not just the fear of the death drop itself but of embarrassment and other things. It gets a lot of respect, even from the troublemakers who don't even respect the lifeguards. Typically, and thats interesting, non-troublemakers are more courageous than troublemakers. Its an equalizer.

I get questions of course and this led to a bunch of assorted responses. With adults I usually use the analogy of the fact that drunk people often come out of car wrecks virtually unhurt while the sober people right next to them are utterly demolished, then point out that this is because the fear response of the sober makes them clench every muscle so they become rigid like a falling glass, as opposed to the lack of fear response of the drunk, who gets hurled through the car supple like falling dough and because of it, meet far less resistance on impact. This is actual science.

Special cases need special explanations. A lil girl of about five or six insisted on trying and failed several times, which of course hurt but she didnt want to quit. I then told her "ask the water if it will catch you and if it says yes, then drop." her face lit up to hear an adult apply magical thinking, she tried it, immediately did not not even bat en eyelid during the fall, fall reflex overcome by confidence, and was overjoyed that indeed, it at once did not hurt in the slightest.

With a Muslim I pointed out its an act of faith and reminded him that the Qu'ran said that if you fall into the fire with Allah foremost in your heart, the fire would be cool to let you pass through unharmed. That did it for him, he linked it to the discipline of prostration of Muslim prayer and immediately succeeded.

I noticed a few people I suspected were sociopaths, who observed from a distance, then tried it themselves, by themselves, one time, immediately flawlessly, emotionless right after, just shrugging it off and carrying on. they tested if it would get them what other things could not, but unfortunately it posed zero challenge - if only it did.

Its a big thing to overcome for most, a leap of faith over instinct and common knowledge. Its like walking over red hot coal, it can be done if done right but if done wrong it will hurt like hell.

Its nothing like jumping into the water, we all "know" that that's OK, but with literally falling over flat everything in us screams its a death drop and wants to cushion the impact.

Try it and report back.

Worst that can happen is that it hurts, everybody is going to laugh at you and the lifeguards think you're a special needs swimmer :evil:
This gets respect though, bigtime, if you do it for yourself, steer clear of shownanship and do your thing unconcerned with social scrutiny.


--------------------
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personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #24788669 -

Thank you for this well thought out response Burke and I fully subscribe to your point of view. An adult shouldnt leave such behaviors unaddressed as they may grow out of control and may be indicative of issues and can be used as an educational experience, but neither should it be overpoliced as some tend to do.

Kids need guidance, that's the whole point parenting and education.

The Medicate! Incarcerate! response is as wrong as sitting by and having kids grow up feral in my view. Up to a point roughhousing is to be expected but that should be no excuse for not doing your job as an adult. After all, it takes a whole village to raise a child, all the actions and inactions of all people we interacted with ever have helped us become the person we are now.

That was a great reply.


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24788694 -

Anyone who trust falls into water for no reason other than having seen a stranger do it is psycho,
they saw a potentially painful activity and thought no better than to emulate it
both are masochistic all over

normally my instinct would be to warn them away from risk,
and to remind psycho 1 (or psycho 2, whichever) that harming someone pool side, even in jest, can have severe repercussions
with that said, read a news story the other day about a kid who drowned simply having a contest with other kids of who can stay underwater longer
so dunno what the hell should be considered acceptable risk when kids horse around

realistically probably pretty normal for a kid tho
nut-shots strike me more as a practice of jest than of maliciousness

Also when you say Mortal Kombat style do you mean he dropped down in the splits like Johnny Cage for the punch?

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Tantrika]
    #24788746 -

No, it's totally normal. Up until about...i dunno, at least my age, 20. I would have had a hard time laughing.


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Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Tantrika]
    #24788752 -

No but it was a move that as indicative of either someone who did martial arts, watched pro fights or was a gamer.

Tantrika said:
Anyone who trust falls into water for no reason other than having seen a stranger do it is psycho,
they saw a potentially painful activity and thought no better than to emulate it
both are masochistic all over




With all due respect I think that's a bit too heavy on the DSM, it's not necessarily indicative of personality pathology to emulate a behavior you see executed repeatedly without any apparent harm.

It's a trust fall. You don't as much trust the stranger as you trust the water to catch you.

One of the many reasons that compelled me to start doing this - When I was a teen we at gym in a small group of more troubled teens at one time were told to do a particularly intense trust fall: We were to crouch down on the edge of an about 5 foot high gym platform and let ourselves fall backwards and the whole group would catch you. This was a clear therapeutic exercise to restore the faith in other people in us bruised up teens.

But, something happened. All went without flaw. When it was my turn however, all of the teens, I kid you not, stepped back and let me fall. It was only thanks to the gym teacher and his assistant that I didnt break my back. They could just hold me enough to ease me to the ground, which almost injured them. The gym teacher exploded at them, they were entirely unapologetic, and to say it the floyd way it put another brick in the wall for me.

That was one of the things on my mind during meditation, and the idea was born that a trust fall had to be made, 30 years after the fact, where I was not let down like I had been. My spirit guide suggested working towards this death drop, offering angles from biology and physics that it could be done, and angles from psychology and spirituality that there would be great benefit in doing it.

It worked for me in more ways than anticipated. The water caught me, reliably, if I fell with the right attitude, but moreover my social environment had my back too, being mentally supportive in the most surprising and unexpected ways imaginable, from the young and old and all inbetween.

Its a victory and a liberation, and I think people sense that just looking at me and they want in on that.

Really Tantrika, there's a physiological change that happens in your body when you switch from fighting something to accepting it that doesn't just stop bad trips, it actually can turn a potentially painful impact into a peaceful one without any discomfort, even if you weigh twice what a human should weigh and fall flat on your back where all the nerves and none of the fat are.

Overcoming your fear and doubt by facing it head on in the most blatant, yet safe and sane, way possible. A great life lesson.


--------------------
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personal empowerment for the world

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24788754 -

Asante said:
I was in my local swimming pool the other day, minding my own business, perfecting my technique I developed to practice my ability to switch my fear off as well as submitting to the water, and through it, the universe by unbridled prostration.

.


ya lost me


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #24788767 -

You should totally try it Near Dylan :smile:


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24788773 -

keep your unbridled prostate to yourself


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #24788784 -

Quote:
Prostrate

1, to cast (oneself) face down.



Its the second R that makes a world of difference.

I would love to see you take that trust fall and succeed. No higher power required than the ability to master your instincts.

Is it gonna be OW or WOW?

Stakes are high: its gonna be very WOW if you succed but very OW if you fail.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24788789 -

i was hoping the joke was implied but thanks


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #24788792 -

It was funny :smirk:


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personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Near Dylan]
    #24788794 -

Sounds like you’re scared of a little unbrideled prostrate to me homie..


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Amanita86]
    #24788800 -

*gives Near Dylan a gratuitous nut punch and shoves him in the water* :evil:


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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24788818 -

Asante said:
No but it was a move that as indicative of either someone who did martial arts, watched pro fights or was a gamer.
...


Women's self-defense classes taught me to go for the nuts,
not out of vindictiveness, but out of efficiency in disabling an attacker

maybe it was indicative he's being raised by a single mother and he latched on to you as a father figure
but misinterpreted your embracing of a painful and fear inducing practice

:cookiemonster:


Asante said:
Tantrika said:
Anyone who trust falls into water for no reason other than having seen a stranger do it is psycho,
they saw a potentially painful activity and thought no better than to emulate it
both are masochistic all over




With all due respect I think that's a bit too heavy on the DSM, it's not necessarily indicative of personality pathology to emulate a behavior you see executed repeatedly without any apparent harm.
...


Nor is it indicative of personality pathology for kids to mess around with friends
especially with regards to something portrayed in the media as comical (ie:: nut shots)

Was poking fun,
my alternate course of debate was going to be to claim that it was a byproduct of toxic masculinity
:wink:

Asante said:
...
It's a trust fall. You don't as much trust the stranger as you trust the water to catch you.
...


Have never done a trust fall,
but would far sooner choose water over another person
:tongue:

Asante said:
...
That was one of the things on my mind during meditation, and the idea was born that a trust fall had to be made, 30 years after the fact, where I was not let down like I had been. My spirit guide suggested working towards this death drop, offering angles from biology and physics that it could be done, and angles from psychology and spirituality that there would be great benefit in doing it.
...


:hug:

Asante said:
...
Really Tantrika, there's a physiological change that happens in your body when you switch from fighting something to accepting it that doesn't just stop bad trips, it actually can turn a potentially painful impact into a peaceful one without any discomfort, even if you weigh twice what a human should weigh and fall flat on your back where all the nerves and none of the fat are.

Overcoming your fear and doubt by facing it head on in the most blatant, yet safe and sane, way possible. A great life lesson.


My only real 'dislike' of your practice
is falling is all about stopping momentum
it is an acceptance practice, and respect that
but see in you the capacity to use momentum of traveling backwards to move forward
even beyond the pool



but excited for when you let us know when you have taken up tumbling
in an adaptation of simply going with it



:fasted:

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #24788852 -

It’s definitely a boys things. I agree with what Burke said and the like about the “boys” thing though. Boys will be boys but that doesn’t make it good. Personally I probably would have, after witnessing the event, likely observed and then asked the other kid if he’s alright. Not my place to discipline someone else’s kid, even verbally. Unless the other kid got really hurt. About the post claiming masochism and psychopathy due to imitating, is ridiculous. It’s water for fucks sakes. :lol:

Boys will be boys. I used to try riding up a tree on my bike, when I was 4 or so. My bike still had training wheels. Still don’t know what I planned to do once I got to the top. I used to do these water falls too, when I was younger and got to swim often. It’s find of fun.

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Tantrika]
    #24788863 -

Its not a painful and fear nducing practice if you do it right, if you do it right its on the contrary painless and liberating and people of all ages are discovering it.

Its not that I dissociate away from the pain and sadistically watch everybody fall into agony :rotfl: people are picking up the skill left and right, its a skill, you genuinely learn something. The ability to shut down fear also helps when the dentist drill's approaching your mouth or other situation where growing a pair (testicles or ovaries) is called for.

Its not a hypnotic suggestion that blocks a painful stimulus, its relaxation preventing a shockwave from causing pain by rippling through tensed up tissues overstretching them, rippling through a far more flexible medium instead.


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personal empowerment for the world

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Tantrika]
    #24788867 -

Tantrika said:
My only real 'dislike' of your practice
is falling is all about stopping momentum
it is an acceptance practice, and respect that
but see in you the capacity to use momentum of traveling backwards to move forward
even beyond the pool






Thank you Anansi :rainbowcloud:


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personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Boys Will Be Boys or Psycho Kid? [Re: Asante]
    #24791381 -

I didn't vote as this is a single isolated incident with no real insight into repetitive behavior without any insight into typical interactions between the two.  at best all you really could do is tell the kid , hey thats a dick move and either hell get you back or hell keep taking it until he blows and then everything is going to come back 10 fold. either way unless you really seem to repetitively go swimming and they happen to always be around id say just don't worry about it. if you ever do say something just choose your words carefully you never know when something ment to be helpful will be taken the wrong way or missinterprited.

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