pachoo said:

Lucky me I have my Sun in Scorpio and my sun conjuncts Pluto. As well as my Sun and Pluto in my 7th house. Scorpio is in my Sun, Venus, Mercury and Pluto. And my Neptune is sextile Pluto. Although my sexual or relationship tendencies are far from torture or craziness. I suffer from some mental illness and I can be immensely stubborn and emotional but I don't hold people hostage or torture them. I am quite gentle with my loving but I will admit that it can be pretty intense perhaps. I don't know. I'm pretty much an all or nothing kind of person in love.




It is very interesting to note if someone has the Pluto - Ascendant aspects as this in the chart can bring out the more extreme sexual side. From deep loyalty and love all the way down to stalking, possession, dominance, rape, and torture.

Pluto Conjunct Ascendant will be very magnetic and impossible to say no to. Very sexually driven but incredibly loyal and loving but incredibly intense. Famous people with this aspect is Kurt Cobain, Judy Garland and Glenn Close.

Pluto Sextile/Trine Ascendant will usually released through creative expression and they can also become immersed in their work all the way to burning out. It can also have violent tendencies. Among famous people with this is Frida Kahlo, Shania Twain and also Aileen Wuornos.

Pluto Square/Opposite Ascendant is more stalkerish and torturous. It can feed into fetishism and a double sided sexual appetite. Most of these people might even have an image of normalcy but behind closed doors can get into some pretty kinky stuff. Some even feign the victim of relationships only to hop into another and become the torturer. Famous people with this aspect is George Blake, Brad Pitt, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and John Rechy.

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Kurt said:

Anyway... although she won't remember it probably, I actually remember Pachoo telling me in these forums a while ago that you can read the aspects as unresolved or resolving Karma, and I thought that was right on point. It changed the way I saw things.  Karma definitely offersmuch to work with, as any good yogi knows...

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Did I say that? Well that seems pretty smart of me. Hahaha Almost too smart... Are you suuure it was me? Makes alot of sense when I think about it again. There was something I just added to the original post as well that everyone might enjoy. It's about Lilith moving around in your chart. There's also three aspects to her as well. When I found one of the websites detailing it I found that it was also moved by karmic debt and our challenges in lives.

To find your Lilith... You can use astro.com (Isn't this site freaking useful?!) and go to the EXTENDED CHART SELECTION, go down to ADDITIONAL OBJECTS and click on Lilith, and also input 1181 (Lilith) h13 (Black Moon Lilith) and h58 (Dark Moon Lilith).

And you can also go a very easy way and just look it up based on your day of birth in this link...

Wicked Witch Lilith

Then just clicking the sign that your birthday falls in between. Mine ended up being Lilith in Leo.

The person enjoys giving praise to the object of her love and the fruits of her labor, but she requires a similar attitude towards her from people for whom she does not feel a strong passion. She behaves like a narcissistic poseur, self-centered and ambitious, abusing her power, an attitude that emanates from an exaggerated sense of the importance of her presence in the world. The person may also boast, show arrogance and have a tendency to take too much on herself. She is possessed by a frequent desire to give lessons and does not like children. She tends to play the game of the love slave or to impose this role on her partner.

The provocative roles are played by brilliant and remarkable people, perhaps children.

The inferior level

The person is possessed by vanity and excessive pride, she is jealous and takes revenge on all those who are talented. She behaves like an impostor, an upstart and uses sex, Eros, for malicious purposes. This is the karma of a gambler, a party animal, a Don Juan, a pimp, a molester or a child killer. In a previous life, the person may have abused some great power she had, such as a hierarchical position without equal, could have hurt her loved ones, or, more simply, was self-centered, exuberant or buried her talent. She could have been the keeper of a brothel or of a drug den. In this life, the person is attracted to debauchery, prostitution, pornography, gambling and to the vandalism of artworks.

The intermediate level

The person is the one enduring misfortunes at the hands of powerful people and treacherous and vengeful enemies. Her punishment can be infertility or sufferings associated with romantic failures. If she is talented, some parvenus with wounded vanity get jealous and take revenge on her. In a previous life, the person has abused her authority, was too egocentric and was using her talents at the detriment of others. Perhaps was she unfair to children or has she abandoned her own child. In her current incarnation, she may have conflicts with her own children, or children in general may mock her. Her entourage and the events in general will cast a shadow on her reputation. Dangers for her come from fire, weapons, sunburn, a stroke, and she runs a great risk of getting ridiculed and to incur public shame. One must not suffer from unrequited love, but should take more care of the education of children without expecting any specific gratitude from them.

The superior level

At this level, the person perceives the manifestations of evil in the arts and entertainment industry. She harmonizes her relationship with children and feels no gnawing envy towards celebrities, people in power or those receiving honors. The person wages an uncompromising war against vulgarity and pornography, protecting the young from the harmful effects of civilization and from empty sensual entertainments. The person consciously purifies love from covetousness, exercises enlightened creativity and takes responsibility for her children, for her creations and for her love. At this level, the person acquires excellent acting skills, allowing her to easily turn the heads of strangers and to charm them.

The main commandment: do not seek power, do not aspire to glory and give everything to children without expecting gratitude.



Quite ironically I used to have thoughts that I would see some of my past lives. One of them was that I was a well-off man who was very indulgent and spent his life spending money on whores and gambling his life away. I cared only for myself and didn't give a crap about anyone else. This lifestyle ended up getting me stabbed in the back by a heartbroken 'friend', or who considered me a friend and I betrayed them for my own gain.

So this karmic Lilith influence actually rang for me a bit.

@Cat - Ah yes. That makes a bit more sense. I do like a bit of kink in the sheets but I try really hard to make my relationship to be as balanced as possible between dominance and submission. My boyfriend and I are both quite stubborn and shitheads when it comes to our views but we really balance each other out. I tend to be the one on top mostly in the sheets. Haha But I do enjoy being subdued.

There was actually something that I came across that perhaps you may be interested in... about psychotic tendancies in the chart.

You have a really unique view on astrology Cat. I know it probably def comes from your extreme past and I hate that you had to go through those things even though you feel like you have grown quite spiritually from them.



@Kurt - Yea there's a ton of Scorpio in that chart it seems. I feel like it just makes me really emotional and intense with emotions haha. But alot of people do seem to gravitate towards me sometimes.

I am really enjoying this thread!! It's almost too good because all the replies seem very thick. I feel like I have to reply even more for discussion. But I really am finding more stuff out there to add. And def keep adding Philosophy and Historical stuff about astrology!! I enjoy reading it and once I get to it I shall post some books that I have doing on it psychologically.



@ Ezuma - Hey I'm Jaguar and have two signs in Death. I got you man! *spiritually evolving magic*

deff said:

it reminds me of the idea of what intuitives speak of when they talk about how they see a person's life path. I've heard several mention that they see life lines that branch off from one another, different potential timelines, and so the further into the future one is to look, the less likely that a given reported outcome will come to pass - and so the issue of predictions is usually in terms of probabilities. I know one person who said that the more 'awake' and spiritually aware a person is, the more likely that their life paths have many potential off-shoots, as they are much more likely to deviate from a more autonomous traversing of their life. I've also come across the idea that these different timelines represent different parallel versions of ourselves, that when there is a choice of two options there exists two different realities where each option is chosen - which is akin to the many-worlds interpretation in physics interesting to think about

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100_the_cat said:

More Pluto sq Asc

I think the reason I perceive myself as only experiencing relationships where I start out the victim is because if I start out dominating someone, they run away pretty fast. Most people won't put up with that. They might tolerate it long enough to put their dick in you for a one night stand, but then they'll put themselves in their own witness protection program

I think I learned that the only way people would tolerate being around me is if I play the victim role. And once I've had enough and stop playing that role, I have no appeal (because I'm now the abuser)

It's like if you have an abusive boss, and you protest their treatment of you, you get fired. If you have abusive parents and you protest them, you get disowned (but you can come back if you agree to go back into a submissive role). If you have an abusive landlord, and you protest, you get evicted.

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pachoo said:

(...)

deff said:

it reminds me of the idea of what intuitives speak of when they talk about how they see a person's life path. I've heard several mention that they see life lines that branch off from one another, different potential timelines, and so the further into the future one is to look, the less likely that a given reported outcome will come to pass - and so the issue of predictions is usually in terms of probabilities. I know one person who said that the more 'awake' and spiritually aware a person is, the more likely that their life paths have many potential off-shoots, as they are much more likely to deviate from a more autonomous traversing of their life. I've also come across the idea that these different timelines represent different parallel versions of ourselves, that when there is a choice of two options there exists two different realities where each option is chosen - which is akin to the many-worlds interpretation in physics interesting to think about

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Ah, that reminds me of what I talk about. I feel like you have usually the one path but you revolve in these circles, (like a merry go round and they are all attached at points but all continuously moving around independently), to points in time where you are given opportunity or come in contact with people that can help change you somehow. If you don't take the opportunity you don't continue into another circle and you can also go into another opportunity attached to a another separate circle that takes you onto another path but it all ultimately ends up in some similar end.

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