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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat]
    #23763131 -

The last guy -- the ebay guy -- in synastry we had Pluto square Mars going on between us. I read a description of this going into the relationship but didn't heed the warning. I wasn't taking astrology fatalistically enough yet. After I dumped him, I spent 3 years fantasizing about killing him.

I have a serious grudge against ENTJs and people with Venus in Scorpio now. In an effort to protect myself, of course.

I have this feeling all Pluto-Mars synastry contacts are bad news unless you're so physically highly sexed that you want the rape experience on a regular basis. I'm fine with getting raped by ghosts but not people.

Just want to clarify, this guy wasn't the forcible rape I mentioned earlier...those are separate

Edited by 100_the_cat (10/23/16 04:04 AM)

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat] * 1
    #23763135 -

http://www.astrodreamadvisor.com/Pages/yellow_over_human.html

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat] * 1
    #23763525 -

100_the_cat said:
deff said:
here's mine :smile:



can't say I'm too educated about astrology, but it does seem to sometimes offer quite accurate depictions of traits and such :laugh:


Possibilities I notice right away:

Problems with friends/groups (Pluto in hard aspect to multiple planets in 11th house)

Physical abuse or violence (maybe even rape or torture) (Pluto square Mars), perhaps having to do with personal possessions or money (2nd house Pluto)

Overbearing father (Pluto square sun)

Romantic relationships are dangerous (Pluto square Venus)

Strict parents or home life, perhaps time in foster care (Saturn conjunct IC)

You may have moved a lot in childhood (4th house Uranus)...or something about the home life was unusual, maybe a commune or group home or something

There was something Neptunian about the home life...escapist caregivers (drugs, alcohol, spirituality, anything associated with getting lost in fantasy, could even be a penchant for cinema), or maybe the home was haunted

Sagittarius IC with the other home stuff makes me think of a religious boarding school...or an environment/family with a similar dynamic going on


hi, thanks for your interpretation, though most of it is not at all the case of my life :smile:

no physical abuse or violence, father is definitely not overbearing, no time in foster care nor strict parents, only moved once in my childhood and only a short distance away - nothing unusual with my home life that way, parents were not escapists and don't have any of those habits, don't think the home is haunted - we had the house built ourselves, no religious boarding school - was not raised religious really :smile:


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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: deff] * 2
    #23764640 -

Although it can be impressive and fun to guess peoples signs, predictive astrology is not actually as powerful as self interpretation. This is increasingly possible today too, with the technology and access of information. The delphic oracle, who spoke to the philosopher Socrates said "know thyself", and for me astrology has always worked like that.

My issue with prediction is not so much a matter of it being accurate or true or not, but that it sets up a kind of knowledge relationship between the interpreter and the person being interpreted, or the person and him or herself, an emphasis on knowledge claim. But self knowledge is largely interpretive, in its basis.

For instance I can relate a story from my own experience intepreting. I remember when I first met my girlfriend I showed her the best I knew how to interpret her astrology chart. At first, I knew it impressed her to be knowledgeable in that sort of way, but I tried not to be like that. It mostly turned out to be the way we sort of just were, the way we vibrate, and astrology can move us to be "in tune" with the planets. As time went on, I knew since how I felt, I couldn't do her astrology at all, even if she asked...Anything I knew would be better poetry than fate.

Self interpretation in astrology (along with a great practice of self interpretation in general) will often be of things people already know. Even when you get to doing transits, (the way the planets and zodiac changes overhead in relation to aspects) there is only so much influence one can add to the way things are or are playing out. So I lean to think knowledge is not so much a power, mostly a poetic/inteperpretive resonance that is there.

I think Cat is partly on point, but her reading may have been a bit particular, which is why it didn't hold. One thing I'd say, you can self interpret, as pointed out, is how you will shine in a community or social group, or among friends. You seem to have that reputation around here, at the shroomery to me. 11th house, is the house of joining and community, where your sun (your "self"), mars (your "fight") venus ("friendship/love") all rest.

The red and blue lines connecting the planets, are aspects. They exist between planets as tensions and harmonies in life. Blue lines are easy, and red are more difficult. This is what begins more to describe particularities. Pluto (the P symbol is easy to pick out) will add a level of intensity to you, especially since it is a square to those planets in your 11th house. I am not sure how I would interpret that intensity in particular ways from such a removed perspective. Pluto is very easy and very difficult to interpret, because it stands so much for fate itself. I'd say cat was right to point it out as somehow significant, but maybe you could self intepret? Clearly this may be true for anyone, but you might particularly feel a sense of fate in your personal path, especially somehow in your sense of belonging or community. Or maybe not, but what your chart might say is to look to your 11th house for something important. (PS Everyone has an 11th house, but you might find things are "happening" there)

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_dgelevhouse_e.htm



Edited by Kurt (10/23/16 04:12 PM)

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Kurt] * 1
    #23764791 -

thanks for the information Kurt :smile: there is certainly a lot to explore, and a lot more complexity to astrology than I was familiar with. I don't feel particularly inclined at this time to make too much of a study of it - some things so far as traits have rung true, others not so much.

personally I tend towards a less deterministic view of things I think than is possible to form around astrology, and am not so sold on the idea of life events being determined by a natal chart entirely. the analogy that resonates with me would be incarnational life being akin to playing an rpg (role playing game) video game where prior to starting you design your character with certain traits etc... so for instance certain astrological proclivities and also genetic factors, choosing your parents, life path and events, karmic themes etc... and then from there you have the chance to play it out with whatever skill you bring from past plays of the game, to hopefully gain greater mastery of this level of being. but I don't think life makes as much sense, to me anyways, if a natal chart determined as much as is sometimes asserted in terms of events. but I know that many people find it a great resource, so it is certainly interesting to me :smile:


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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Kurt]
    #23764861 -

Well there's the issue of literal vs figurative too and self-awareness.

I went to a palm reader at my high school afterprom

I didn't know anything about this stuff, didn't really believe in it either

I figured it was all made up for money but I didn't have anything to lose cuz it was free at this event

She asked me if I had problems with my family...I said no, because I had no idea yet that I'd been abused or there was anything abnormal about it (now I understand I have the family from hell and I was horrifically abused). I thought I had the perfect childhood

I told her I was about to move to NYC for college. She said I'd only be able to stay for a few years, then I'd have to leave (true -- stayed 6 years, left against my will). She said after that there would be great tragedy in my life (true -- I moved back in with my family and underwent the worst abuse yet (torture years), got fired from a bunch of jobs, my family lost their house to foreclosure because the IRS took my dad's entire paycheck several times in a row for not filing taxes for 6 years, almost hung myself to escape my parents' abuse, spent 3 weeks in a crisis stabilization unit because the cops came to get me when I attacked my mom (she deserved it), went into the homeless system for 4 years to get away from my parents, lost my place there because I wouldn't get a paying job, tried to live on the street, ended up back with my family)

Palm reader said if I could just hold on through the tragedy, I'd end up back in NYC and be wealthy and famous for music. Interesting because even back during the time of this reading, my secret dream was to be a star. I said, "Are you sure it isn't design? Cuz I'm going to design school..." She said, "No, it's not design, it's definitely music."

So that last part makes sense astrologically because I have a 10th house Taurus sun. But it's conjunct Chiron, so it'll probably never happen. It's totally unrealistic for me -- I'm not a doer. I think it's more likely that I'll be facilitating the realization of this dream for others, via some kind of healing function.

Do I consider what she said to be wrong? No. She was just throwing symbols/concepts out there for me to work with and flesh out as I get older.

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat]
    #23765046 -

Example of literal/figurative spectrum:

Saturn conjunct IC -- foster care (lack of parents, lack of nurturing home life)

I have Saturn conjunct my IC and I was never literally in foster care, but I was so incompatible with my own family that I used to ask my mom when I was little if I was adopted. Psychologically it was like being in foster care.

I met a woman recently with Saturn conjunct IC who literally spent time in foster care

Also makes me think of a military family

Anything that brings a Capricorn flavor to the home environment

Something about it is bare bones...

(If I could have any house I wanted, I'd pick something minimalistic, I can't stand having more than necessary in my dwelling...I'd rather see empty drawers than junk drawers, I prefer the atmosphere of a home when I've just moved in, before anything has been unpacked...I love how stripped down and empty hotel rooms are)

Edited by 100_the_cat (10/23/16 06:58 PM)

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat] * 2
    #23765305 -

I agree, Cat, on the question of the literal/figuretive spectrum.

This thread was probably going to touch on the general question of fatalism, which some people find in astrology, and others do not in general, so much, and that might be related. For instance I didn't mean that astrology was itself generally fatalistic, just that some people find pluto above all to be one of the deepest astrological influences, and may be what people find most easily interpretable as fatalistic. Pluto, is what people read as fate (also power sex, and other deep resonances).

Philosophically speaking (aside from astrology) I would say it would depend on what people mean by fate, for me to indulge such an idea, beyond a healthy skepticism.

To start with, a theoretical determinism doesn't work to explain anything in general. I can only think it is a basically mistaken notion out front, to identify so much with any theory determining reality. Isn't it clear it is humans that conventionally or theoretically "determine" things, in whatever concept? Or do people now say nature determines or is deterministic? People identify with ideas in a broad way, and there are many causal determinists who take their position, and the paradigm they identify with as most reasonable. This "modern" idea of fate as determinism is interesting because it seems clear, such determinism comes from the way modern people theoretically conceive and strongly identify with the world in terms of their knowledge of it, and yet they project something from that as an ideal intelligibility of things, (a "determining" nature), which is actually just speculative. I do not even know what to say, to anyone's suggestion in that sense. I'd think that is really just an image and myth, what modern people deify, playing itself out, that I don't follow along with. It is not science, but a metaphor and image drawn from it by relation.

As for fate in general though I actually reserve some metaphorical possibility, if the metaphor strikes people in their existence. I think the idea can be a less "mechanical" metaphor, or less deterministic, for instance. I'd think of fate like in Homer's poetry, in the Iliad, where Achilles learns he has an essential choice. He has to decide whether he would fight in the trojan war, and create an immortal legacy - but in that die - or if he would choose not to fight, and live a long and happy life, and have many children and grandchildren. In that sense fate is in a person's existential choice. As it goes, Achilles chose to fight, and created a legacy and narrative that went beyond himself, but as a consequence, dies. Only to be fate, to Achilles it was no choice, but actually, his following the way of his way. Achilles was his fate, because he knew himself.

But fate is not just power or strength. It could also be expressed in ease with oneself, and acceptance, and there is no jutting decision or action to take in ones way. Like Robert Frost wrote:


Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth,

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same...

Fate could be a strong and unwavering narrative that may transcend - by burning through - what we ourselves are, or are wholly aware of at a time. Or it can be in the principle of ease, and least resistence, more passive like water, filling in. The less elemental and more "theoretical" principle of what is known and not known comes into play, when modern people talk about fate in their own lives. Knowledge or what one knows and comes to know can be the narrative. "Determinism" can be fate. I am not sure I would say I believe or do not believe in something like fate, because it usually needs to be broken down a little from a strong principle of knowledge we modern people live by. Achilles had a choice and at the same time he was heroic in that he did not. What is the path in the woods, which diverges, with no moral, of right vs. wrong, better or worse, and with no essential hindsight other than lived life?

So to put it in astrological terms. In the end I think I look to a passiv principle of knowledge, and see the world though interpretation, ie. the self reflective knowledge, and from there I understand how people may indeed have a strong understanding of their path, and convicition, or may be able to easily embrace whatever comes. I'd say there is no argument for fate, there is just poetry.

I would definitely not urge anyone to think anything is determined, in astrology like the way an apple fell on Issac Newton's head like a mechanical law of gravity. That is too literal. (And there is nothing wrong with identifying with science, in my opinion either, if a person understands its extent and purpose, and where its knowledge based principles begin and end.) Clearly if there is anything going on with the planets, in their different relations, and harmonies, astrologists speak of, it is a different principle. The way people look to a sky and the stars around them is in a much broader sensibility, of simultaneous resonance with these celestial phenomena, and interpreting the human events around them. I'd guess early humans drew figures of animals, like heros in the stars early on, and noticed how the planets (wanderers) moved through these "signs", and people learned to find a correspondences between symbol and life, as a whole. Where there are strong pulls in the planets, (in ones nature) they pull to "fate" to resonance within these interpretive terms, to ease, letting go, or identification and strength. The forces would be more like yin and yang. As modern and reasonably skeptical people, we might recognize explicitlty that this is an interpretive or figurtive correspondence, if anything at all though. Astrologers would clearly interpret the events around them, in broad correspondence rather than force any force of physical reality on people one way or another. Even if the interpretive correspondence in astrology would seem to imply that the planets have "effect" upon us, that has no basis if there is no personal or existential resonance. The sky is what it is whether it is just to look at to interpret, just the same. So it is better to say, astrology is not an interpretation of "force" when it is not exactly dealing with those forces, on a human level first.

If there are fates in general, likewise, in view of life, I think it can't be without regards to one's existential way of being. We regard that, choice that diverging of the tree branches, or the stream or the path is of life, in its most basic sense, and people begin there. That to me is nothing astrological, so I would say I have much respect for all who come to the existential, and the essential in general.

As for astrology, to me freedom is in figurtive interpretability. When conveying this, the challenge seems to be in giving someone new, with interest, enough information to work with, without it being too much. It is best to work with the general, and what resonates, in my opinion, and allow the particulars to come and appear in themselves without need of elaboration, because that is life.

Anyway... although she won't remember it probably, I actually remember Pachoo telling me in these forums a while ago that you can read the aspects as unresolved or resolving Karma, and I thought that was right on point. It changed the way I saw things.  Karma definitely offersmuch to work with, as any good yogi knows...

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Kurt]
    #23765334 -

For reference (on fate)

Homer, Iliad on "two sorts of destiny":

"[Akhilleus (Achilles) speaks :] ‘For my mother Thetis the goddess of the silver feet tells me I carry two sorts of destiny toward the day of my death. Either, if I stay here and fight beside the city of the Trojans, my return home is gone, but my glory shall be everlasting; but if I return home to the beloved land of my fathers, the excellence of my glory is gone, but there will be a long life left for me, and my end in death will not come to me quickly.’"

Achilles and Thetis on a Grecian Urn


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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Kurt] * 2
    #23765364 -

it reminds me of the idea of what intuitives speak of when they talk about how they see a person's life path. I've heard several mention that they see life lines that branch off from one another, different potential timelines, and so the further into the future one is to look, the less likely that a given reported outcome will come to pass - and so the issue of predictions is usually in terms of probabilities. I know one person who said that the more 'awake' and spiritually aware a person is, the more likely that their life paths have many potential off-shoots, as they are much more likely to deviate from a more autonomous traversing of their life. I've also come across the idea that these different timelines represent different parallel versions of ourselves, that when there is a choice of two options there exists two different realities where each option is chosen - which is akin to the many-worlds interpretation in physics :smile: interesting to think about :smile:


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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: deff] * 2
    #23765455 -

Nice. Heres another great image, on life and branching



From the the Indian Epic, the Bhagavad Gita on the principle of Karma yoga; (or "way of action"); as the god and chariot driver Krishna's advice to Arjuna:

"You have a right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction."

I have been thinking of this one alot. It is difficult to interpret karma or being the "cause of the results of your activities" (which many would say is self evident), but I would say it might mean thinking of the relation of action and egoic identification, or by the image (fruit and seed) understanding what lets the karma as initial "arising" come to another generation...

Karma wise, I used to have a reaction to anything remotely puritan sounding so this one was a difficulty :lol:. That's what it is like being raised catholic I guess. "Do not desire but act?" Or in other words, "assume duty over desire?" But now to me this sounds more like the way of burning through something like a wick. The way held of both knowledge and action in balance. That means let what comes up come up and pass in its natural way, as it will, (which is not harshly against enjoying things I think) but work, and exert effort with all results through principled action.

I think I could just as easily think of some great maxims from Eckhart Tolle who I have been reading, but then I might be pulling Pachoos thread offcourse... But yeah fate or karma, seems to be a sticky if interesting subject, potentially very relavent to life (and its many interpretations)!

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Kurt]
    #23765480 -

Quote:
"You have a right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions"


:congrats:

excellent point. ha, i was just talking with someone about this very concept, not too long ago, and here i find out it's laid out in the Gita. lol, cool.

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23765494 -

I don't buy into astrology, checked out the mayan one though and some aspects of it sounded right, but they're pretty general. Got 'wind' "Personality: Talkative, mental, agile, intelligent and versatile. Idealistic and romantic. Fashion conscious or artist.

You have a strong, sincere, harmonious personality that can live sudden changes. Because you are able to make quick changes people may sometimes think you are inconsistent or fickle. You are unpredictable like the wind and have a hyper nature. Your extreme imagination and ideas keeps your feet off the ground. However, you must learn to be tranquil, centered and balanced. [...]
Spirit and breath of life. The Wind blows life to matter and brings new awareness to the world with its messages. You carry the power to spread good seeds and ideas. For example, you can talk about spirituality in a very inspirational way for hours without feeling a bit tired. However, you must be careful about the messages you share. You are very talented in communications and can be very successful in this line of business. [...]
The Wind that gives us life and keeps us alive (called “prana” in India) symbolizes the essence of life. [...]
You must be careful not to have sudden bursts of anger. [...]
The Wind sign is behind the power of natural cycles of weather, erosion and cultural change. [...]
Challenge: Responsibilities and fears associated with it, indecision, not being able to commit.[...]
Solution: Education and learning how to communicate better.[...]
Signs that contribute to your growth: Wind, Jaguar, Knife, Death and the Dog[...]"

seems good enough, all the western ones seem like a lot of work...


--------------------


Ezuma Art:

http://ezumaart.weebly.com/

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: Ezuma]
    #23765548 -

i believe the only real aspect of western astrology that can be attributed to an accurate assessment (of what said astrological mapping is supposed to grant the purveyor) is in natal astrology, ie, the coordination of your exact date of birth to astrological charts, giving you a summery of what is "supposed to be" your life path from birth.

and i don't think it's predictive, or even supposed to be. i believe it gives a person an archetype of human behavior that is cemented into the mythological basis for the rest of the archetypes within the zodiac, and that with which you use to provide a starting point for your assessment within those archetypes, in order for insight into how to view yourself in accordance with other people in your life, or in general.

that's my honest opinion: i don't think mundane astrology or predictive astrology is a matter of reality. but natal astrology contains the basis for the practice, as it has been conceived by the creators of the archetypes.

psychological astrology is an interesting practice, too, though. a work in progress, methinks.

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23765893 -

Plutonian concept



This guy has a Scorpio moon conjunct Pluto

Pluto is also sextile Saturn, Venus, and Mars

Pluto is the first thing I look at in a person's chart

If their Pluto doesn't tell me a story it's like I can't understand them

It's a way in to the rest of the chart

Oh...one book I do have is The Book of Pluto by Steven Forrest

I totally forgot about that

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: 100_the_cat]
    #23765987 -

i am a Scorpio in Pluto too. :naughty:

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23766111 -

Lucky me I have my Sun in Scorpio and my sun conjuncts Pluto. As well as my Sun and Pluto in my 7th house. Scorpio is in my Sun, Venus, Mercury and Pluto. And my Neptune is sextile Pluto. :lol: Although my sexual or relationship tendencies are far from torture or craziness. I suffer from some mental illness and I can be immensely stubborn and emotional but I don't hold people hostage or torture them. I am quite gentle with my loving but I will admit that it can be pretty intense perhaps. I don't know. I'm pretty much an all or nothing kind of person in love.




It is very interesting to note if someone has the Pluto - Ascendant aspects as this in the chart can bring out the more extreme sexual side. From deep loyalty and love all the way down to stalking, possession, dominance, rape, and torture.

Pluto Conjunct Ascendant will be very magnetic and impossible to say no to. Very sexually driven but incredibly loyal and loving but incredibly intense. Famous people with this aspect is Kurt Cobain, Judy Garland and Glenn Close.

Pluto Sextile/Trine Ascendant will usually released through creative expression and they can also become immersed in their work all the way to burning out. It can also have violent tendencies. Among famous people with this is Frida Kahlo, Shania Twain and also Aileen Wuornos.

Pluto Square/Opposite Ascendant is more stalkerish and torturous. It can feed into fetishism and a double sided sexual appetite. Most of these people might even have an image of normalcy but behind closed doors can get into some pretty kinky stuff. Some even feign the victim of relationships only to hop into another and become the torturer. Famous people with this aspect is George Blake, Brad Pitt, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and John Rechy.


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:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: pachoo]
    #23766137 -

For those that would like to see more of the planetary aspects you can find yours in the astro.com. Go to the Personal Portrait where it gives your basic astrological psychology. And going towards the bottom where your astrological data is at... Look at the major aspects. Mine looks like this....

Major aspects
Sun Conjunction Mercury
Sun Sextile Neptune
Sun Conjunction Pluto
Moon Sextile Venus
Moon Square         Jupiter
Mercury Sextile Neptune
Venus Quincunx Jupiter
Mars Sextile Saturn
Mars Opposition Ascendant
Jupiter Trine         Saturn
Jupiter Trine         Uranus
Saturn Conjunction Uranus
Saturn Trine         Ascendant
Neptune Sextile Pluto

I actually just found a really good website that has more stuff about it and the darkside of the aspects. (It is not quite complete so you may not find some of your major aspects. I already can't find 3 of mine.)

Darkstar Astrology Major Aspects



(I will also post this one and add the books and websites that everyone has mentioned thus far to the original post. :smile: It might take a bit because I also would like to add my books in there. Also I wonder if some of you philosophy shroomerites might take interest in two books that I have on astrology.)


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:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:

Edited by pachoo (10/24/16 08:18 AM)

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: pachoo] * 1
    #23766161 -

city of the niiight...O city of the niiiight!

:goodtobeking:

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Re: Share your astrological makeup!!! [Re: pachoo]
    #23766956 -

I am mostly Pisces, which goes with a cancer moon and Scorpio Pluto. But then there is Sagitarrius (a fire sign) making things interesting.

Other than that there is a little more going on. Neptune in Capricorn. And I have Chiron in the 12th house, which I usually add in... I will never understand it probably, but Chiron can be pretty important, so I fit it in.



...

Looks like this thread is getting warmed up...

Pachoo, you have an interesting scope! I will always wonder what it is like to have alot going on in Scorpio. You must be a powerful lady :naughty:

I always wished I could have a little more Scorpio going on. I'll live with my Pluto being in Scorpio (like many people) though. Actually, I think I'd be in a little trouble if it weren't for Scorpio...

Edited by Kurt (10/24/16 04:00 PM)

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