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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23208901 -

Tipote said:
The Ecstatic said:
Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.



I always find myself buying books, and then realizing I don't have time to read books. I think modern technology has made me too ADD to just sit and read also. I just feel too stressed and anxious all the time... can't focus.

I've wanted to read several books you've posted. Especially Thomas Piketty. Blech >.<



Dont fret young buck! They make audiobooks for practically everything now.

Check out audible.com or squarespace.com



never heard of square space.. but audible is great. you can listen to the reading of the book while doing other stuff.



Squarespace is basically the same thing. And yeah, i keep headphones in at work, i can blaze through a couple books a week. Its great.

:feelsgoodman:


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23208918 -

cool, gna check it out and get back into doing this. its the best way to get through books :thumbup:


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23209107 -

qman said:
Not on this debate, the vast majority of US citizens believe in national sovereignty, secure borders, legal citizenship, legal immigration, and maintaining law.

I'm afraid it's people like yourself that have this "pie in the sky" outlook on national sovereignty that are in the minority.



Yes all the angry white guys want to maintain that status quo on the stolen land you occupy. Secure borders is another way of saying you are racist. No matter how much you try to rile everyone up no one cares about the border. Borders are made up nonsense, it's something you need to believe in but cannot see. It also allows you to keep the worlds problems out. Tough shit you people created all the third world problems, I hope you have to pay for the welfare of 50 million fat illegal mexicans.

Anyway good Job London on the Muslim mayor my city has had one for years and of course no one cares.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naheed_Nenshi
There was a letter written to the right wing rag paper wondering how our mayor felt about Sharia law, and the response from paper was "we are pretty sure he's against it" because anyone who thinks the muslims are coming to impose Sharia law is a fucking moron.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe *DELETED* [Re: qman] * 1
    #23209136 -

Post deleted by night_shift

Reason for deletion: [delete]

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: my3rdeye]
    #23209149 -

my3rdeye said:
qman said:
Not on this debate, the vast majority of US citizens believe in national sovereignty, secure borders, legal citizenship, legal immigration, and maintaining law.

I'm afraid it's people like yourself that have this "pie in the sky" outlook on national sovereignty that are in the minority.



Yes all the angry white guys want to maintain that status quo on the stolen land you occupy. Secure borders is another way of saying you are racist. No matter how much you try to rile everyone up no one cares about the border. Borders are made up nonsense, it's something you need to believe in but cannot see. It also allows you to keep the worlds problems out. Tough shit you people created all the third world problems, I hope you have to pay for the welfare of 50 million fat illegal mexicans.




"stolen land you occupy"

All land on this planet was fought over at one point in history, conquest is a part of human nature.

"Secure borders is another way of saying your racist"

:facepalm: So most of the world's governments are "racist" according to your warped logic.

"no one cares about the border"

Borders exist for a reason, it's not because "no one cares". :facepalm:

"you people created all of the third world problems"

:facepalm:  No, the third world creates most of their own problems and if it wasn't for the developed world they would be in even worst shape.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: night_shift]
    #23209161 -

night_shift said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!





If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.



No. You get national socialism when you combine nationalism with socialism. See? It is really this simple.

For best results:

Start off with an economy that produces massive social inequality, divide the people based on their belonging to the nation or not (criteria may vary) and voila. I get it your solution is to remove the not belonging people from the equation? I wonder who else came up with the same brilliant idea?!



The Jews weren't flooding into Germany by the millions and demanding free food, shelter, education, and health care. They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.

Also, the wealth inequality was the complete opposite, if was the native German's that were on a shitty end of the stick.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23209186 -

the world needs to move beyond nationalism and borders but I dont think we are there yet. We need to be able to make decisions on a global scale as the world is an interconnected place. Sealing our borders and pretending something outside those borders can't hurt us is naive. Why not contribute to a global system where its not zero sum? Where cooperation shows that we have more interest in working together. Why not move away from an economy that says we can dump toxic waste into some countries and treat citizens of one country like slaves while all the jobs and the wealth are in others. The rich countries are like gated communities with the naive idea that you can fuck up the rest of the world and sit back insulated from all that shit.

It should be in the interest of rich countries to genuinely help poorer countries to develop. People won't want to leave their countries to come to yours for jobs if they can just work in their own countries. Elimination of poverty, tackling climate change, universal energy system - all of which will take the sting out of immigration, will help manage global population better and provide clean energy for the planet.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23209191 -

qman said:
They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.




What is it about islam that makes "assimilation almost impossible" in a secular West? People were saying this about Jews not long ago..

For something that is almost impossible, it sure seems to happen a hell of a lot!!


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23209209 -

Tipote said:
the world needs to move beyond nationalism and borders but I dont think we are there yet. We need to be able to make decisions on a global scale as the world is an interconnected place. Sealing our borders and pretending something outside those borders can't hurt us is naive. Why not contribute to a global system where its not zero sum? Where cooperation shows that we have more interest in working together. Why not move away from an economy that says we can dump toxic waste into some countries and treat citizens of one country like slaves while all the jobs and the wealth are in others. The rich countries are like gated communities with the naive idea that you can fuck up the rest of the world and sit back insulated from all that shit.

It should be in the interest of rich countries to genuinely help poorer countries to develop. People won't want to leave their countries to come to yours for jobs if they can just work in their own countries. Elimination of poverty, tackling climate change, universal energy system - all of which will take the sting out of immigration, will help manage global population better and provide clean energy for the planet.



Maybe you haven't been paying attention, emerging markets/the third world has been out growing the developed economies of the world for the past 35 years. (their share of global GDP went from 30% to over 50% in that time period and is gaining .6% every year)

http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2014/05/09/emerging-markets-dominate-global-gdp?slreturn=1462889377

In fact, one could say the developed world has sold out it's own people to build up the third world, it's called globalization.

I think you have some misconceptions of what is really taking place, humans always help themselves first and others a distant second, that's never going to change. They sellout their own people to enrich themselves.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23209214 -

qman said:
night_shift said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!





If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.



No. You get national socialism when you combine nationalism with socialism. See? It is really this simple.

For best results:

Start off with an economy that produces massive social inequality, divide the people based on their belonging to the nation or not (criteria may vary) and voila. I get it your solution is to remove the not belonging people from the equation? I wonder who else came up with the same brilliant idea?!



The Jews weren't flooding into Germany by the millions and demanding free food, shelter, education, and health care. They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.

Also, the wealth inequality was the complete opposite, if was the native German's that were on a shitty end of the stick.



Lets cut the bs: Jewish bankers hurt the post ww1 german economy much more than refugees are hurting the post recession EU economy. 

Lets not forget the EU was on the verge of collapse BEFORE this migrant crisis happened.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23209325 -

Tipote said:
qman said:
They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.




What is it about islam that makes "assimilation almost impossible" in a secular West?



I think you already know the answer to that question.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23209343 -

night_shift said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!





If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.



No. You get national socialism when you combine nationalism with socialism. See? It is really this simple.

For best results:

Start off with an economy that produces massive social inequality, divide the people based on their belonging to the nation or not (criteria may vary) and voila. I get it your solution is to remove the not belonging people from the equation? I wonder who else came up with the same brilliant idea?!



The Jews weren't flooding into Germany by the millions and demanding free food, shelter, education, and health care. They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.

Also, the wealth inequality was the complete opposite, if was the native German's that were on a shitty end of the stick.



Lets cut the bs: Jewish bankers hurt the post ww1 german economy much more than refugees are hurting the post recession EU economy. 

Lets not forget the EU was on the verge of collapse BEFORE this migrant crisis happened.



Yeah, Jewish bankers win that prize, but that doesn't diminish the harm being caused by the "refugees" in the EU.

"the EU was on the verge of collapse BEFORE this migrant crisis"

Really?  When, why, how?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23209392 -

The Ecstatic said:
Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.



I always find myself buying books, and then realizing I don't have time to read books. I think modern technology has made me too ADD to just sit and read also. I just feel too stressed and anxious all the time... can't focus.

I've wanted to read several books you've posted. Especially Thomas Piketty. Blech >.<



Dont fret young buck! They make audiobooks for practically everything now.

Check out audible.com or squarespace.com



Young buck? Are you trying to say that you're old for my age? Or I'm young for your age? lmao


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23209476 -

i am a bigot: loud and proud: if you don't like that, you're just PC: all idiot racists should be put in the trash compactor -- they are unlivable.


that is all. brought to you by, Bigotry.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bubbles85]
    #23209587 -

Bubbles85 said:
Number 1, where did i say any thing about it being a problem? I didn't, thats your perception




I have stated more then once that the problem with your statement is that its not comprehensible, I have hence asked what the purpose of your words are. Where did you say it is a problem? I don't know, it was merely a question from my side, if its not a problem that the immigrant situation has caused a left-wing mayor, why is it important to mention that this? I don't know anything about your point. And obviously you don't either.. I have asked multiple times, but I just get some lame bullshit thrown back at me. Answer the question already.

Bubbles85 said:
The reason i stated that a large Muslim population in London, will have played a major role in this guy being elected major, is because it is the truth.
Do you not think it is not within the Muslim population of London's interest, to have a fellow Muslim in such a position? Of course it is, only an idiot would think other wise.

Twist my words and try to mock all you like, you're only making your self look foolish.



Yes, the result from voting is dependent on the people voting. No shit.

And currently immigration, among other things, has caused white native folks and immigrants to vote for a conformed Muslim mayor. So ok: there would perhaps not be a Muslim mayor if we didn't have so many immigrants. And....?

"of course this happens when the natives are a minority"

So, whats is the impact of this?
Why does it matter?
How many times are you going to avoid answering this question?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23209639 -

qman said:
Tipote said:
qman said:
They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.




What is it about islam that makes "assimilation almost impossible" in a secular West?



I think you already know the answer to that question.



I wouldn't be asking otherwise. Please educate me then, qman.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23209662 -

qman said:
"the EU was on the verge of collapse BEFORE this migrant crisis"

Really?  When, why, how?



This has been going on for like a decade now. Financially and politically, the EU has been weakening for ages. To some extent, that is why there are well established nationalist parties nowadays - they've been fighting the EU.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23209733 -

Tipote said:
qman said:
Tipote said:
qman said:
They also didn't have a religion that made their assimilation almost impossible to accomplish, you're talking apples and oranges.




What is it about islam that makes "assimilation almost impossible" in a secular West?



I think you already know the answer to that question.



I wouldn't be asking otherwise. Please educate me then, qman.



Do you really think many of their homophobic, sexist (anti-women), and anti-Christian views of the world mix well with the liberal Western culture?  Why do they alienate themselves so much within the EU if those mix so well?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23209866 -

Quote:
Do you really think many of their homophobic, sexist (anti-women), and anti-Christian views of the world mix well with the liberal Western culture?



sounds very similar to another group in the US...oh right, Christians.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23209939 -

qman said:
Tipote said:
qman said:
Tipote said:
What is it about islam that makes "assimilation almost impossible" in a secular West?



I think you already know the answer to that question.



I wouldn't be asking otherwise. Please educate me then, qman.



Do you really think many of their homophobic, sexist (anti-women), and anti-Christian views of the world mix well with the liberal Western culture?  Why do they alienate themselves so much within the EU if those mix so well?



No, I don't think those views mix well in the West but these ideas in the West are debated about openly and notions of tolerance tend to dominate in these debates in Western culture. There are plenty of homophobic, sexist, misogynist and anti-religion etc views in Europe. Most of Europe is probably against religion regardless of the presence of muslims. The Quran actually says that those that follow the holy books - the bible, the gospels etc are following Allah. Jesus is a prophet. You seem outraged at Anti-Christian when how many people really identify as Christian these days? Why not try to care about Anti-islam/arab views? they tend to be the more destructive views. You talk so highly of Western values but i see a part of western values to speak to universal freedoms for all mankind.

Surely living in the secular West does show that they can have their views, their religious beliefs etc because they are in a free country, and other people can think what they want. This has been a norm in many places all over the Middle East - religion is a private matter. But the West has a secularising effect I'm sure.

Many "muslims" these days are just culturally muslim and don't even believe in God. The second and third generation are islamic in label only. Hell, i'm more of a muslim than many muslims I meet these days. Its just what happens in the west. And our countries have freedom of religion so who gives a fuck. 

Also i don't know if there are any estimated figures but i'm sure there are many Christian Arab refugees too. And Christian refugees from the wars in Africa.

What you've said doesn't show that islam isn't able to assimilate. but granted the emphasis in Europe is more on integration, not on assimilation. And for the most part that has been very successful considering the weaknesses of the system.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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