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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: night_shift] * 1
    #23205073 -

night_shift said:
qman said:
I can VISIT most places that I'm interested in experiencing, that's good enough for me, I'm not entitled to live there, that's not realistic.

US citizens want LEGAL immigration, not illegals flooding into their country, that's why Trump is #1 in the polls, we want our immigration laws to be enforced.


Of course. You got lucky to happen upon the more or less correct side of all sorts of borders (or so it seems to you... I wouldn't trade places with you but whatever) so you're doing just fine, and the rest may hope to earn the priviledge of existing if only their existence doesn't disturb your comfort, right.

It's good that you're a minority.


Yeah, nobody said life was fair.  That doesn't mean a lawless free for all is a better alternative for everyone.

Maybe I'm sick of living in the US and now want to reside in Australia, guess what?  I can't go there and "disturb" their comfort, that's their right.

"It's good that you're a minority."

Not on this debate, the vast majority of US citizens believe in national sovereignty, secure borders, legal citizenship, legal immigration, and maintaining law.

I'm afraid it's people like yourself that have this "pie in the sky" outlook on national sovereignty that are in the minority.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: night_shift] * 1
    #23205083 -

night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!




If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23205129 -

qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!




If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.


Are you saying Nazism is an appropriate response to diversity?


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23205168 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!




If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.


Are you saying Nazism is an appropriate response to diversity?


No, why can't you see the clear distinction between diversity and getting one's homeland flooded with millions of third world people in a matter of months?  I hardly think the German people would have issue with a few thousand French or Italians landing up in Germany.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #23205240 -

http://www.wsj.com/articles/eus-migration-woes-threaten-a-crisis-of-european-values-1462731403

"the migration crisis remains the greatest threat to the survival of the European Union"

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #23205278 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!




If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.


Are you saying Nazism is an appropriate response to diversity?


No, why can't you see the clear distinction between diversity and getting one's homeland flooded with millions of third world people in a matter of months?



Same reason you see compassion towards people fleeing a war zone as a total hippie fest.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23205341 -

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0153419

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #23205717 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
night_shift said:
On this day, 71 years ago, Nazi Germany ceased to exist. Some seem so tempted to follow the footsteps, it's amazing.

С днем победы!




If Germany wasn't flooded with over a million refugees in the last few years, the recent rise of Nazism would have never taken place.

We can thank people with your border less mentality for that fact, the real world isn't one big hippie fest.


Are you saying Nazism is an appropriate response to diversity?


No, why can't you see the clear distinction between diversity and getting one's homeland flooded with millions of third world people in a matter of months?



Same reason you see compassion towards people fleeing a war zone as a total hippie fest.


If only they were "fleeing a war zone", most of them weren't even from Syria. The EU has recently said being from Syria doesn't even automatically qualify someone for refugee status.

Regardless of that fact, the best way to help genuine refugees is from a distance with financial aid and logistical support.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 3
    #23205984 -

:lolsy:

Fixing the mess we created in the Middle East with "financial aide and logistical support" is way more of a pipe dream than expecting the refugees to integrate to EU society immediately.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Malkuthian]
    #23206093 -

Malkuthian said:
Bubbles85 said:
Rise of the horrible left? They may have gained a Muslim mayor in London thanks to the immigrant vote, but on the grand scheme of things nationally, Labour did terribly.


A well integrated and very conformed Muslim who has adapted seemingly perfect to western standards.
How is this a problem I ask?
Because the Muslim is left-wing, you answer.

And the above is your answer when I mock this ridiculous answer?
Seriously?

Can you please just analyze for a couple of minutes, what your purpose was when stating that it's no surprise a Muslim leader won when the native population is a minority. Cause to me it seems we have gone from talking about the big problem with terrorists to talking about your perceived problem with left wing politics gaining ground from immigrants, on which you comment "the left wing is not gaining ground".

It doesn't seem like you know why you are typing.


Okay, seeing as you like to twist my words and interpret them to mean what ever you want them to mean, this conversation is only going to go around in circles.

Number 1, where did i say any thing about it being a problem? I didn't, thats your perception and number 2, we were not discussing any thing to do with terrorists or the like, at the time this conversation began.

The reason i stated that a large Muslim population in London, will have played a major role in this guy being elected major, is because it is the truth.
Do you not think it is not within the Muslim population of London's interest, to have a fellow Muslim in such a position? Of course it is, only an idiot would think other wise.

Twist my words and try to mock all you like, you're only making your self look foolish.


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Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story NEVER Told - Official Trailer

The National Socialist Revolution - THINK DIFFERENT

EUROPA – The Last Battle - The Truth Fears No Investigation

Edited by Bubbles85 (05/09/16 03:35 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23206200 -

The Ecstatic said:
:lolsy:

Fixing the mess we created in the Middle East with "financial aide and logistical support" is way more of a pipe dream than expecting the refugees to integrate to EU society immediately.


No one said it would fix the mess in the ME, but the EU has already proposed safe zones inside of Syria for the refugees instead of them flooding into other countries.

So this so called "pipe dream" is likely to become a reality since this migration into the EU is coming to an end.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #23206212 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
:lolsy:

Fixing the mess we created in the Middle East with "financial aide and logistical support" is way more of a pipe dream than expecting the refugees to integrate to EU society immediately.


No one said it would fix the mess in the ME, but the EU has already proposed safe zones inside of Syria for the refugees instead of them flooding into other countries.

So this so called "pipe dream" is likely to become a reality since this migration into the EU is coming to an end.


So explain why this EU proposal is sound.

we're gonna stick some barbed wire fence in the sand and throw some tents in there. Youre welcome, Syria!


We cant even get sides to agree to abcease fire, but were gonna conjure up safe zones? We cant even protect Turkey, NATO member, theyve had more suicide attacks in the past two years than in their nation's history combined.


Look dude. Im not saying just invite ten million beggars to Europe, thats obviously not a solution, thats a reaction. But any sober examination of the root issues to this crisis MUST begin with an indictment of the West's foreign policy in the ME.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23206385 -

I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23207957 -

The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.


He's a very intelligent man for sure, but I think many liberals might be disappointed by the fact that he characterizes US policy in the Middle East as mismanagement, instead of exploitation or opportunistic in nature. I will listen to the second video and see if he says anything that changes that viewpoint. He's definitely worth listening to.




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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23208035 -

The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.


I always find myself buying books, and then realizing I don't have time to read books. I think modern technology has made me too ADD to just sit and read also. I just feel too stressed and anxious all the time... can't focus.

I've wanted to read several books you've posted. Especially Thomas Piketty. Blech >.<


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23208285 -

Cannonball, -- i don't think anyone will read it -- by John McElroy -- seems worth a shot for anyone interested in Iraq war fiction.

and

Bamboo Bed -- by William Eastlake, is also a goodun, but instead it's about Vietnam. another study in warfare ala United States Intervention!

i'm also getting 'Embers Of War: The Fall of an Empire and the Making of America's Vietnam', by Fredrik Logevall soon.

but that one by Bacevich looks enticing too.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23208831 -

Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.


I always find myself buying books, and then realizing I don't have time to read books. I think modern technology has made me too ADD to just sit and read also. I just feel too stressed and anxious all the time... can't focus.

I've wanted to read several books you've posted. Especially Thomas Piketty. Blech >.<


Dont fret young buck! They make audiobooks for practically everything now.

Check out audible.com or squarespace.com


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23208840 -

oo thaanks book club! The Bacevich one seems interesting, ecstatic:thumbup:. thanks, qman, for the youtube link. ill listen to that soon.

I'm wondering whether to make a "reemergence of the left in the West" thread. There does seem like a lot of cross over of both topics in this thread.

Prof. Leo Panitch on about how the "left" has discredited itself over the years by its accommodation of neoliberalism.. and that this is changing but has helped along this polarisation to the left and right.


On the elections as it affects Labour..including Labour mayoral candidate, Khan.


Contrary to what Bubbles regurgitates from the media, it wasn't a disaster for Labour though absolutely its going to be a hard race.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23208843 -

The Ecstatic said:
Bigbadwooof said:
The Ecstatic said:
I doubt anyone will actually read it, but im halfway through an excellent book by Andrew Bacevich called The War For The Greater Middle East.


I always find myself buying books, and then realizing I don't have time to read books. I think modern technology has made me too ADD to just sit and read also. I just feel too stressed and anxious all the time... can't focus.

I've wanted to read several books you've posted. Especially Thomas Piketty. Blech >.<


Dont fret young buck! They make audiobooks for practically everything now.

Check out audible.com or squarespace.com


never heard of square space.. but audible is great. you can listen to the reading of the book while doing other stuff.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23208895 -

Bigbadwooof said:
I should say that the issue here spans a lot further than jealousy of success, or xenophobia though.


I completely agree, but i'm sure it has a part to play.

Quote:
Firstly, let's not pretend that the West has not played a role in creating this reactionary brand of muslim that suicide bombs Paris. Paris certainly didn't deserve the backlash, but they're the ones that got it, because they have allowed so many muslim people to live in their country.


It tends to be the US and UK that starts the wars that drag the rest of the West along, France is never far behind, or usually up there in front as a top player. France has a long history of abuses too and these abuses . It's true that France probably has one of the biggest Muslim populations of Europe, and that hostilities have been building over many decades. France has historically been a particularly racist country so on top of having large numbers of muslims, these communities are separated and rejected..which just breeds more isolation and hostility on all sides.

Quote:
The United States has been fighting wars that it has no business fighting for a decade and a half now; stirring the pot of theocratic craziness, and destabilizing the middle East.


absolutely, the fuel of political grievance inflames religious nutjobbery!
stirring the pot is profitable to the arms industry. Permanent war is a permanent income.

Quote:
Let's also not pretend that the bombings have not happened. Imagine you advocate for these people day in and day out. They come to your country, and they bomb a building that your child happens to be in. They bomb a theater your sister happens to be in.


I'm not sure I got your point here. No one is advocating for the kind of people that bomb anything. It depends how far you think "muslim" is synonymous with "extremist/terrorist". Perhaps I missed your point, BBW?

Quote:
The point, for me, is that when we let Mexicans into America, they don't bomb us.


The difference is that Muslim isnt a country. I don't know much about the history between Mexico and the US but I'm sure there are plenty of colonial-esque abuses. The Spanish certainly wiped out many natives in South America. There is no US occupation, or US-backed settler colonial project, or drone strikes in Mexico. Impoverished Mexico has the power of the cartels in South and North America and so I'm sure there is a whole load of violence going on within the US because of this. Perhaps it is corruption from drug money that protects the Mexican cartels. It is the drug and oil revenue, among other things, that seem to be protecting Daesh.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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