Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

I did say: "Terrorism for one is a direct impact from events so far away."

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You do realize that the majority of people who carry out Islamic terrorist attacks on European, or American soil, are born and bread in these places right?

Why do they feel they need to carry out such atrocities, because of events that are taking place in the Middle East?

Is it maybe because, in truth, they hate the West and they do not really consider them selves to be part our culture, or identify them selves as European or American, even tho they may have been born here?

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akira_akuma said:

Bubbles85 said:

What they hell are you blabbing on about now Are you consistently high when you post on these boards?

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yeah, but that's not relevant. ever.

you said "how can you not conflate the issue of immigrants and refugees when they're all coming together"

and you also said in the same post that "they're just coming in for different reasons."

which is exactly what should be discussed because people always seem to mix up the IMMIGRATION problem and the REFUGEE problem (and the "Muslim problem" too) all INTO ONE BIG CLUSTER FUCK, and then CONFUSE them for one another, which is a fucking debacle and travesty.

the OBJECTIVE MERITS of the problems should be discussed, but INSTEAD -- and read me well here -- instead we get people inflating the conflict through equivocation, and slippery slopes of logic and boundless irrationality! but you...you do not see it.

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Enlil said:

The problem with tying terrorism to U.S. intervention is that it is like tying cancer to smoking.  Humans don't respond to long-term consequences the same way they respond to short-term ones.  Yeah, someday a cig will kill you, but not today or this week, so fuck it.  Similarly, yeah...someday the people we bomb are going to be pissed and hit us back, but not today or this week.

That's why the direct/indirect designation matters.  Humans will generally try to avoid conduct that directly harms them.  Conduct that indirectly harms them, not so much.

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Tipote said:

it doesn't mean its right to not care about refugees - it just shows a lack of interest or information.

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Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

I did say: "Terrorism for one is a direct impact from events so far away."

---

You do realize that the majority of people who carry out Islamic terrorist attacks on European, or American soil, are born and bread in these places right?

Why do they feel they need to carry out such atrocities, because of events that are taking place in the Middle East?

Is it maybe because, in truth, they hate the West and they do not really consider them selves to be part our culture, or identify them selves as European or American, even tho they may have been born here?

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If you were an immigrant and lived in another country, say China. And the China and a bunch of other Asian nations start wars in Europe and equate Westerner/Christian/White with terrorist and kill men woman and children in your country of origin and dehumanise Westerners, within that society however well you had integrated it will certainly affect you.

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Bubbles85 said:

akira_akuma said:

Bubbles85 said:

What they hell are you blabbing on about now Are you consistently high when you post on these boards?

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yeah, but that's not relevant. ever.

you said "how can you not conflate the issue of immigrants and refugees when they're all coming together"

and you also said in the same post that "they're just coming in for different reasons."

which is exactly what should be discussed because people always seem to mix up the IMMIGRATION problem and the REFUGEE problem (and the "Muslim problem" too) all INTO ONE BIG CLUSTER FUCK, and then CONFUSE them for one another, which is a fucking debacle and travesty.

the OBJECTIVE MERITS of the problems should be discussed, but INSTEAD -- and read me well here -- instead we get people inflating the conflict through equivocation, and slippery slopes of logic and boundless irrationality! but you...you do not see it.

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But the migrant problem, the refugee problem and the Muslim problem, is exactly the same thing. If they're all pouring in to Europe together, who could it not be?

We're unable to identify genuine refugees, from economic migrants and most economic migrants are lying about where they're coming from, so they don't get turned away.

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Bubbles85 said:

Case and point that many immigrants, or the decedents of, do not accept the country's that they've moved to, or been born in. They do not consider them selves European, or American and they have no interest in native culture.

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Enlil said:

Tipote said:

it doesn't mean its right to not care about refugees - it just shows a lack of interest or information.

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Right and wrong aren't really a part of the equation, though.  People don't decide whether to care or not.  They care or they do not care.  People decide whether or not they're going to act.

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Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

Case and point that many immigrants, or the decedents of, do not accept the country's that they've moved to, or been born in. They do not consider them selves European, or American and they have no interest in native culture.

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And we forever dance around in circles over and over again.

Integration and assimilation is a two way street with responsibilities on BOTH parties. If someone is rejected by a society, it makes it harder to intergrate. If they reject the society, it makes it harder for society to accept them.

My example involved the host society alienating the immigrant population. Westerners are demonised in that example. In the West, in reality, Muslims are demonised.

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Bubbles85 said:

No we don't. Native Brits and Europeans are more accepting and tolerant toward migrants, than migrants are toward them.

No one is rejected to such an extent in the West, that would justify them committing terrorist attacks in the country's they're born in. Thats just horse shit.

The reason they do, is because they clearly identify them selves as Middle Eastern and not British, European or American, despite having been born in these places. That is clearly evident if what is happening in the Middle East (not their home lands, because their not born there) drives them in to committing acts of terrorism.

Its pretty obvious that even immigrants who are born in the West, are clearly not integrating and fully accepting of British or European values and they never will, because they do not identify them selves culturally with these society's.

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Tipote said:

In my example about China, China was bombing Europe and killing men women and children.

I'm not saying that people become terrorists purely because they are rejected. Some terrorists have integrated fully but have a political grievance. Terrorism is by definition to terrorise in order to force a change of policy. If you are Western origin but Chinese for many generations and then China invades Europe, you will identify it. Do you think that immigrants should completely forget their roots? History, culture, identity is all important. You just make the assumption that they care more about their origin then their national identity in the host country. That is an assumption. Why is it either/or?

Even if you were not interested in politics at all and Europeans were commiting terror attacks over invasion of their lands, in China European might become synonymous with terrorist. Just as in the West for some people Muslim is synonymous with terrorist. Then that society might exclude you more and more.

I agree that the West is very tolerant and open but it is just not true that Muslims arent seen as terrorist. When i fasted for Ramadan, I got all kinds of jokes like - so are you learning how to make bombs too? Those were from people that don't see Muslims as terrorists but the association becomes subconscious after the decades of war in the middle east and the resulting fall outs.

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Tipote said:

Enlil said:

The problem with tying terrorism to U.S. intervention is that it is like tying cancer to smoking.  Humans don't respond to long-term consequences the same way they respond to short-term ones.  Yeah, someday a cig will kill you, but not today or this week, so fuck it.  Similarly, yeah...someday the people we bomb are going to be pissed and hit us back, but not today or this week.

That's why the direct/indirect designation matters.  Humans will generally try to avoid conduct that directly harms them.  Conduct that indirectly harms them, not so much.

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I agree with you. That's part of the problem and it conforms to the idea of people in their bubbles and only caring about what is immediate to them.

I agree with qman's point that things so far away aren't cared about by many.

Ultimately, I think that my point is that while that is an explanation for why people don't give a shit, it doesn't mean its right to not care about refugees - it just shows a lack of interest or information. It depends how big your bubble is. For some its the entire world, for some it's their house. Some see things as a collective struggle to mean we should help those in need, some see things as an individual struggle, with gradations between the two.

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Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

No we don't. Native Brits and Europeans are more accepting and tolerant toward migrants, than migrants are toward them.

No one is rejected to such an extent in the West, that would justify them committing terrorist attacks in the country's they're born in. Thats just horse shit.

The reason they do, is because they clearly identify them selves as Middle Eastern and not British, European or American, despite having been born in these places. That is clearly evident if what is happening in the Middle East (not their home lands, because their not born there) drives them in to committing acts of terrorism.

Its pretty obvious that even immigrants who are born in the West, are clearly not integrating and fully accepting of British or European values and they never will, because they do not identify them selves culturally with these society's.

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In my example about China, China was bombing Europe and killing men women and children.

I'm not saying that people become terrorists purely because they are rejected. Some terrorists have integrated fully but have a political grievance. Terrorism is by definition to terrorise in order to force a change of policy. If you are Western origin but Chinese for many generations and then China invades Europe, you will identify it. Do you think that immigrants should completely forget their roots? History, culture, identity is all important. You just make the assumption that they care more about their origin then their national identity in the host country. That is an assumption. Why is it either/or?

Even if you were not interested in politics at all and Europeans were commiting terror attacks over invasion of their lands, in China European might become synonymous with terrorist. Just as in the West for some people Muslim is synonymous with terrorist. Then that society might exclude you more and more.

I agree that the West is very tolerant and open but it is just not true that Muslims arent seen as terrorist. When i fasted for Ramadan, I got all kinds of jokes like - so are you learning how to make bombs too? Those were from people that don't see muslims as terrorists but the association becomes subconscious after the decades of war in the middle east and the resulting fall outs.

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Tipote said:

Bigbadwooof said:

My mom is a cat lady... she'll love this one lmao.. she smuggled a cat to America from Russia on an airplane once lmao!

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haha wtf how did she do that!?

catz rule

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Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:

I think American's are more in a 'bubble' also, because we are separated by 2 oceans from most of the world. European countries have many countries bordering them, and near them, so they get more involved in staying informed about foreign politics. I'm sure Europeans don't keep up on Korean or Vietnamese politics.

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Yeh absolutely I agree. There is a proximity factor as you say.

But i imagine Americans generally know fuck all about South American or even Canadian politics. I don't know.

About Korean and Vietnamese politics, youre right that generally people won't know much but at least the key events are definitely in the media. Less so in the US but its still there.

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qman said:

Shit getting real in Germany.

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qman said:

Shit getting real in Germany.

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Disgraceful. The political elite right across Europe are like this. "Blame the natives, modify the native culture, change the way the natives are living to better suit Muslim immigrants" ...

Starter said:

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Bubbles85 said:

Holly shit, that last video is shocking. Fucking perverted scum bags. Fuck Islam

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